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Intelligent design [was] old news to Darwin
Chicago Tribune ^ | 13 September 2005 | Tom Hundley

Posted on 09/13/2005 4:15:07 AM PDT by PatrickHenry

So what would Charles Darwin have to say about the dust-up between today's evolutionists and intelligent designers?

Probably nothing.

[snip]

Even after he became one of the most famous and controversial men of his time, he was always content to let surrogates argue his case.

[snip]

From his university days Darwin would have been familiar with the case for intelligent design. In 1802, nearly 30 years before the Beagle set sail, William Paley, the reigning theologian of his time, published "Natural Theology" in which he laid out his "Argument from Design."

Paley contended that if a person discovered a pocket watch while taking a ramble across the heath, he would know instantly that this was a designed object, not something that had evolved by chance. Therefore, there must be a designer. Similarly, man -- a marvelously intricate piece of biological machinery -- also must have been designed by "Someone."

If this has a familiar ring to it, it's because this is pretty much the same argument that intelligent design advocates use today.

[snip]

The first great public debate took place on June 30, 1860, in a packed hall at Oxford University's new Zoological Museum.

Samuel Wilberforce, the learned bishop of Oxford, was champing at the bit to demolish Darwin's notion that man descended from apes. As always, Darwin stayed home. His case was argued by one of his admirers, biologist Thomas Huxley.

Wilberforce drew whoops of glee from the gallery when he sarcastically asked Huxley if he claimed descent from the apes on his grandmother's side or his grandfather's. Huxley retorted that he would rather be related to an ape than to a man of the church who used half-truths and nonsense to attack science.

The argument continues unabated ...

[snip]

(Excerpt) Read more at chicagotribune.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: anothercrevothread; crevo; crevolist; crevorepublic; enoughalready; thisisgettingold
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To: Elsie
Just what makes you think the OM is NOT literal?

Because it doesn't match up with what we know to be natural history. Jesus commonly spoke in parables, that's no big secret. That pattern is pretty well established in His teachings, and so is His disdain for those who are hung up in the specific details of God's writings rather than trying to discern the precepts behind them.

381 posted on 09/13/2005 1:25:04 PM PDT by Quark2005 (Where's the science?)
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To: Elsie
What kind of predictions CAN "E" make then?

With respect to the original question asked, none. Evolution isn't a behavioral science.
382 posted on 09/13/2005 1:25:26 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: Alter Kaker
Are you telling me creationists lie when they say "hello?"

Yes. It's a 25% extension of what they want to say to you.

383 posted on 09/13/2005 1:26:16 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Junior

Advertising, dear boy, advertising. Every time he spews a Hovind line or touts a Hovind position, he draws the more gullible among the creos to him and his products.

Not to mention using FR as a test group for potential new products. He may even use it as a source of ideas for new products.

384 posted on 09/13/2005 1:27:12 PM PDT by ml1954
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To: Dimensio
Was that McDonald or McCloud?

bluepistolero

385 posted on 09/13/2005 1:27:29 PM PDT by bluepistolero (Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump)
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To: Elsie
A man of FAITH!

Not at all. Those marks on the screen are words, and if you read them you will find that information gets into your brain (careful now). Faith is belief sans evidence. What I posted for you to read was evidence. But you aren't interested. You can't have already read and pondered it; just straight back with the flip response. As ever.

386 posted on 09/13/2005 1:28:10 PM PDT by Thatcherite (Conservative and Biblical Literalist are not synonymous)
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To: Coyoteman

It doesn't matter how many times people point out the methods by which science operates, we still hear that same tired (and incorrect) argument.

They operate like the MSM and the DNC.

387 posted on 09/13/2005 1:30:02 PM PDT by ml1954
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To: Thatcherite
I am an atheist.

And, if it weren't for the fact that God chats with me (c.f., the "voices in my head") I'd be right there with you. The Christianity espoused by the purveyors of creationism on these threads is almost a comic book version. It's almost as if they took the term "children of God" to heart and have refused to grow up because of it.

Like any good parent, God has tried to prepare His offspring for the Real World. Unfortunately, despite His best efforts, there are some who refuse to strike out on their own as mature adults. Instead, like many in this day and age, they'd rather take up residence in the basement and not be bothered by reality.

Yes, I'm insane. I know it. I simply haven't gotten around to getting my certification yet.

388 posted on 09/13/2005 1:30:50 PM PDT by Junior (Just because the voices in your head tell you to do things doesn't mean you have to listen to them)
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To: atlaw

What does a "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" look like, and what kind of edible fruit grows on it?

Doesn't really matter, for you KNOW the difference; don't you?  When they ate of it, their eyes were opened.  We have inherited this ability.
 
It's that 'Tree of Life' that you REALLY should wonder about.  If you REALLY want to see it, make sure you get a ticket to the place that has it:



 

Revelation 22

The River of Life
    1Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. 3No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him. 4They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. 5There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever. 6The angel said to me, "These words are trustworthy and true. The Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place."
Jesus Is Coming
    7"Behold, I am coming soon! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy in this book."

389 posted on 09/13/2005 1:31:33 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Elsie

Ah, I thought you were responding to my more recent posting to you. If you wish to characterise atheism as faith you may. I would say that I don't have the confidence (hubris?) to pick one creation myth to believe out of the thousands available to me for selection.


390 posted on 09/13/2005 1:31:38 PM PDT by Thatcherite (Conservative and Biblical Literalist are not synonymous)
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To: Elsie
Just what makes you think the OM is NOT literal?

Well, let's start with those trees (the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil). They fairly shout "metaphor", don't they.

If they're literal, perhaps you'd like to take a stab at describing what they look like, what kind of fruit they bear, and why we don't seem to have any of them around anymore.

391 posted on 09/13/2005 1:32:30 PM PDT by atlaw
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To: atlaw
If they're literal, perhaps you'd like to take a stab at describing what they look like, what kind of fruit they bear, and why we don't seem to have any of them around anymore.

Perhaps they were killed by global warming.

392 posted on 09/13/2005 1:34:18 PM PDT by Quark2005 (Where's the science?)
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To: Doctor Stochastic
Note that the creationists are resorting to threats instead of backing up their claims. It's another symptom.
 

To: shuckmaster
call a rock great, great grandpaw
It appears he passed a little of the rocks down in your head.

No, I call God my great, great grandpaw 50 generations back, so a rock can not pass anything down to me, but, what about you?

108 posted on 09/13/2005 8:56:23 AM CDT by newsgatherer 
To: newsgathererEvolution doesn't say we came from rocks.

109 posted on 09/13/2005 8:57:35 AM CDT by bobdsmith

 
What????

393 posted on 09/13/2005 1:34:29 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Elsie
Just what makes you think the OM is NOT literal?

So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. [Gen 3:24]

Where are the Cherubim and the flaming sword?

394 posted on 09/13/2005 1:36:46 PM PDT by Junior (Just because the voices in your head tell you to do things doesn't mean you have to listen to them)
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To: Junior

You don't seem insane to me. But then I must be insane, since I don't accept Pascal's Wager.


395 posted on 09/13/2005 1:37:26 PM PDT by Thatcherite (Conservative and Biblical Literalist are not synonymous)
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To: Elsie
Doesn't really matter . . .

It doesn't matter? Hold on there, fella. If I am to take it as a literal, as opposed to metaphoric, lesson, it matters a whole heap. Trees like that should either be avoided at all costs, or sought out with all due haste, depending upon your point of view.

396 posted on 09/13/2005 1:38:27 PM PDT by atlaw
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To: highball
To: Thatcherite
Some creationists do believe that there is a worldwide conspiracy of scientists over the past two centuries to promote atheism through the teaching of evolutionary theory.

I take back what I said earlier. That's an example of a belief that does deserve to be made fun of. It's just crying out to be made fun of.

281 posted on 09/13/2005 1:58:24 PM CDT by highball

To: highball

SOME evolutionist have been proven to be child molesters.

330 posted on 09/13/2005 2:57:21 PM CDT by Elsie

 
The only "point" I got from your post is that you'd rather change the subject....
 
 
Ok.........  <-- just for VuV

397 posted on 09/13/2005 1:38:44 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Thatcherite

You know, I don't either. I felt something was amiss with it when I ran across it in a college philosophy class (great way to meet girls, by the way). It wasn't until a logic class a couple of semesters later that I came across the concept of "false dichotomy."


398 posted on 09/13/2005 1:39:17 PM PDT by Junior (Just because the voices in your head tell you to do things doesn't mean you have to listen to them)
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To: Junior
Where are the Cherubim and the flaming sword?

The Cherubim drowned in the Flood, which also killed the assorted Magic Trees in the Garden of Eden. Unless of course their magic protected them from a year under 5 miles of water.

399 posted on 09/13/2005 1:39:17 PM PDT by Thatcherite (Conservative and Biblical Literalist are not synonymous)
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To: johnnyb_61820
Shared graffiti. Viral DNA inserted in the same parts of the genome in different species. Identical mutations of exactly the same part of a genome in differing species. All of the above yielding the same cladistics. It's similar to detecting plagiarism.
400 posted on 09/13/2005 1:39:45 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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