Posted on 09/13/2005 4:15:07 AM PDT by PatrickHenry
So what would Charles Darwin have to say about the dust-up between today's evolutionists and intelligent designers?
Probably nothing.
[snip]
Even after he became one of the most famous and controversial men of his time, he was always content to let surrogates argue his case.
[snip]
From his university days Darwin would have been familiar with the case for intelligent design. In 1802, nearly 30 years before the Beagle set sail, William Paley, the reigning theologian of his time, published "Natural Theology" in which he laid out his "Argument from Design."
Paley contended that if a person discovered a pocket watch while taking a ramble across the heath, he would know instantly that this was a designed object, not something that had evolved by chance. Therefore, there must be a designer. Similarly, man -- a marvelously intricate piece of biological machinery -- also must have been designed by "Someone."
If this has a familiar ring to it, it's because this is pretty much the same argument that intelligent design advocates use today.
[snip]
The first great public debate took place on June 30, 1860, in a packed hall at Oxford University's new Zoological Museum.
Samuel Wilberforce, the learned bishop of Oxford, was champing at the bit to demolish Darwin's notion that man descended from apes. As always, Darwin stayed home. His case was argued by one of his admirers, biologist Thomas Huxley.
Wilberforce drew whoops of glee from the gallery when he sarcastically asked Huxley if he claimed descent from the apes on his grandmother's side or his grandfather's. Huxley retorted that he would rather be related to an ape than to a man of the church who used half-truths and nonsense to attack science.
The argument continues unabated ...
[snip]
(Excerpt) Read more at chicagotribune.com ...
The fact that the fossil and DNA evidence indicates that designs appear to be slowly changing over time, in a way that allows them to be fitted into a nested hierarchy There is just no reason for a designer to do that. Further DNA retrovirus evidence crushingly suggests common descent rather than common design. Common descent makes lots of testable predictions which have come true. I am not aware of any testable predictions made by the proponents of ID. Biogeographical evidence suggests common descent, eg it is hard to see how a proponent of common design would predict marsupial fossils in Antarctica, but they were predicted by common descent, and found.
I doubt Kent Hovind would post here. I don't see where there's a quick buck to be made here.
But if you got pinged late, you'd forget what to reply back about!
(At least I would....)
There are two different worlds being discussed here; one is religious in nature, the other is scientific. The problem, as I see it, is that some people are bringing their religious beliefs into the scientific realm and deliberately distorting the methods used by scientists in order to make a religious-based point.
The fact vs. theory argument is an example. "Don't trust evolution, its a theory, not a fact. Its not proven." It doesn't matter how many times people point out the methods by which science operates, we still hear that same tired (and incorrect) argument. As I said, it says more about the one making the argument than it does about the point being attempted.
Well.
The family WITH the food, ate it and went to bed fat and happy.
The family without, attacked them while they slept, and now are enjoying have their neighbors for dinner; often.
Me: Evolution and natural selection are in no way incompatible with a belief in God.
You: Oh, but a CHRISTIAN 'god' would tend to disagree with you"
So you personally know more God than the Pope?
>sigh<
Obviously, that's "know more *about* God". Can't proof my own work....
SOME evolutionist have been proven to be child molesters.
Hey Hovind! This applies to you:
A creationist website (or theme park!) is an intellectual toxic waste dump, littered with debunked science, shabby theology, dishonest quotes, and shameful debate tactics. Their contributors are a bizarre collection of fools, frauds, and lunatics, who appeal to the tragically gullible among the uneducated and the ineducable, cruelly bilking them of their savings by selling them nonsensical tapes, books, and comics.
In some ways I still am.
"What about the 16S rRNA phylogenetic tree?"
The fact that among the thousands of genes there can be found one which moderately follows traditional traditional taxonomy is not very surprising.
Even then, there are many problems in which "horizontal transfer" must be invoked. I'm not against horizontal transfer in general, but if it has to be invoked to explain away problems, the technique isn't all its cracked up to be. There is no way to tell the difference between "horizontal transfer" and "this tree doesn't work".
If Universal Common Ancestry were true, we would expect most genes to give at least roughly the same tree. But that is not what happens.
See http://shiva.msu.montana.edu/courses/mb437_537_2004_fall/docs/uprooting.pdf
Since horizontal gene transfer seems to be most common where we can't see it, don't you think that invoking it is going past where the evidence goes? Horizontal gene transfer is a must if you assume Universal Common Ancestry under the standard models of abiogenesis. But without those models, horizontal gene transfer means "the tree doesn't work like expected". You can only really keep the tree if you assume its existence in the first place, which means that you are assuming a specific idea of abiogenesis.
Oh yeah, that's right. You, and a relatively small group of people who interpret the Bible the same way as you are the only Christians. Everyone else who says that they are Christian is a dupe, or a liar. And of course everyone of every other faith is a dupe or a liar too. And don't get me started on atheists and agnostics. They're dupes and liars both.
Remember what Society did to Prometheus (Bringer Of Light)though; many people love The Darkness and wish to share it.
And the evolutionists that are child molestors deserve to have the book thrown at them.
Just like the creationists who believe in this massive scientific conspiracy deserve to be laughed out of the room.
So what?
OH?
What ever happened to the STRONGER critter eating the food of the weaker?
There are PLENTY of examples in today's world.
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Is Peter the 'rock'?
As you can see, Simon was already known as 'Peter'
BEFORE the following verses came along.....
NIV 1 Corinthians 10:4
4. and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. NIV Luke 6:48
48. He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. NIV Romans 9:33
33. As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame." NIV 1 Peter 2:4-8
4. As you come to him, the living Stone--rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him-- 5. you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6. For in Scripture it says: "See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame." 7. Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, "The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone, " 8. and, "A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall." They stumble because they disobey the message--which is also what they were destined for. But, since there WAS no NT at the time Christ spoke to Peter, just what DID Peter and the rest of the Disciples know about ROCKS??? NIV Genesis 49:24-25 24. But his bow remained steady, his strong arms stayed limber, because of the hand of the Mighty One of Jacob, because of the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel, 25. because of your father's God, who helps you, because of the Almighty, who blesses you with blessings of the heavens above, blessings of the deep that lies below, blessings of the breast and womb. NIV Numbers 20:8
8. "Take the staff, and you and your brother Aaron gather the assembly together. Speak to that rock before their eyes and it will pour out its water. You will bring water out of the rock for the community so they and their livestock can drink." NIV Deuteronomy 32:4
4. He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he. NIV Deuteronomy 32:15
15. Jeshurun grew fat and kicked; filled with food, he became heavy and sleek. He abandoned the God who made him and rejected the Rock his Savior. NIV Deuteronomy 32:18
18. You deserted the Rock, who fathered you; you forgot the God who gave you birth. NIV Deuteronomy 32:30-31
30. How could one man chase a thousand, or two put ten thousand to flight, unless their Rock had sold them, unless the LORD had given them up? 31. For their rock is not like our Rock, as even our enemies concede. NIV 1 Samuel 2:2
2. "There is no one holy like the LORD; there is no one besides you; there is no Rock like our God. NIV 2 Samuel 22:2-3
2. He said: "The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; 3. my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn of my salvation. He is my stronghold, my refuge and my savior-- from violent men you save me. NIV 2 Samuel 22:32
32. For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God? NIV 2 Samuel 22:47
47. "The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God, the Rock, my Savior! NIV 2 Samuel 23:3-4
3. The God of Israel spoke, the Rock of Israel said to me: `When one rules over men in righteousness, when he rules in the fear of God, 4. he is like the light of morning at sunrise on a cloudless morning, like the brightness after rain that brings the grass from the earth.' NIV Psalms 18:2
2. The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge. He is my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold. NIV Psalms 18:31
31. For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God? NIV Psalms 18:46
46. The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God my Savior! NIV Psalms 19:14
14. May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be pleasing in your sight, O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer. NIV Psalms 28:1
1. To you I call, O LORD my Rock; do not turn a deaf ear to me. For if you remain silent, I will be like those who have gone down to the pit.
NIV Psalms 31:2-3
2. Turn your ear to me, come quickly to my rescue; be my rock of refuge, a strong fortress to save me. 3. Since you are my rock and my fortress, for the sake of your name lead and guide me. NIV Psalms 42:9
9. I say to God my Rock, "Why have you forgotten me? Why must I go about mourning, oppressed by the enemy?" NIV Psalms 62:2
2. He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will never be shaken. NIV Psalms 62:6
6. He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will not be shaken. NIV Psalms 62:7
7. My salvation and my honor depend on God ; he is my mighty rock, my refuge. NIV Psalms 71:3
3. Be my rock of refuge, to which I can always go; give the command to save me, for you are my rock and my fortress. NIV Psalms 78:35
35. They remembered that God was their Rock, that God Most High was their Redeemer. NIV Psalms 89:26
26. He will call out to me, `You are my Father, my God, the Rock my Savior.' NIV Psalms 92:14-15
14. They will still bear fruit in old age, they will stay fresh and green, 15. proclaiming, "The LORD is upright; he is my Rock, and there is no wickedness in him." NIV Psalms 95:1
1. Come, let us sing for joy to the LORD; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation. NIV Psalms 144:1
1. Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle. NIV Isaiah 17:10
10. You have forgotten God your Savior; you have not remembered the Rock, your fortress. NIV Isaiah 26:4
4. Trust in the LORD forever, for the LORD, the LORD, is the Rock eternal. NIV Isaiah 30:29
29. And you will sing as on the night you celebrate a holy festival; your hearts will rejoice as when people go up with flutes to the mountain of the LORD, to the Rock of Israel. NIV Isaiah 44:8
8. Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one." NIV Habakkuk 1:12 12. O LORD, are you not from everlasting? My God, my Holy One, we will not die. O LORD, you have appointed them to execute judgment; O Rock, you have ordained them to punish. |
But...
What holds the bricks together??
Advertising, dear boy, advertising. Every time he spews a Hovind line or touts a Hovind position, he draws the more gullible among the creos to him and his products.
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