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Disintegration of New Orleans police slowed response: guard commander
AFP ^ | Sep 3, 2005 | Staff

Posted on 09/04/2005 12:45:08 AM PDT by Anti-Bubba182

The National Guard was slow to move troops into New Orleans because it did not anticipate the collapse of the city's police force after Hurricane Katrina, the guard's commander said.

Lieutenant General Steven Blum said the New Orleans police force was left with only a third of its pre-storm 1,500-person strength.

Some police had families caught up in the disaster, others were unable to make it back to their precincts because of the flooding, and yet others left their posts after deciding the situation had grown too dangerous.

"The real issue, particularly in New Orleans, is that no one anticipated the disintegration or the erosion of the civilian police force in New Orleans," Blum told reporters here.

"Once that assessment was made ... then the requirement became obvious," he said. "And that's when we started flowing military police into the theater."

On Friday, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin angrily denounced the slow federal response as too little, too late, charging that promised troops had not arrived in time.

"Now get off your asses and let's do something and fix the biggest goddamn crisis in the history of this country," the mayor said in remarks aired on CNN.

Blum said that since Thursday some 7,000 National Guard and military police had moved into the city.

But he said any suggestion that the National Guard had not performed well or was late was a "low blow."

The initial priority of the Louisiana and Mississippi National Guard forces was disaster relief, not law enforcement, because they expected the police to handle that, he said.

"We were pulsing forces in in very degraded infrastructure -- airports had reduced capabilities ... in some cases we only had one road in because of lack of bridges, flooding, loss of infrastructure," he said.

"So we couldn't rush to failure on this thing and we had to take a more measured approach on this thing than any of us wanted," he said.

When it became apparent that disorder in New Orleans should be the most immediate priority, the National Guard waited until they had enough forces in hand to make an overwhelming show of force, he said.

On Friday, while President George W. Bush was touring the stricken city, 1,000 military police and National Guard stormed the convention center where street gangs mixed in with thousands of others awaiting rescue had created a volatile situation, Blum said.

"Had we gone in with a lesser force we may have been challenged, innocents may have been caught in a fight between the guard and military police and those who did not want to be processed or apprehended," he said.

Bush, under intense criticism for the slow federal response, on Saturday ordered an additional 7,000 active duty and reserve ground troops to reinforce the National Guard.

That would raise the level of US military forces committed to the relief effort -- active duty as well as national guard and reserves -- to more than 50,000 by the end of next week.

Blum said that on Saturday there were 27,000 national guard troops in Louisiana and Mississippi. That number will grow to about 40,000 within the next week, he said.

There were varying estimates of the number of active duty troops already in the area as part of the relief of operations before Bush's order.

Major General Joseph Inge, deputy commander of the US Northern Command, put the number of active duty forces already on the ground at nearly 5,000 while Blum estimated the active force at 7,000, including sailors aboard navy ships.

The additional troops ordered in from the active force include 2,500 soldiers from the 82nd Airborne Division, 2,700 from the 1st Cavalry Division and 2,000 from the 1st and 2nd Marine Expeditionary Forces.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Louisiana
KEYWORDS: grossincompetence; hurricane; incompetence; katrina; katrinafailures; nagin; nopd
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To: JudgemAll
I would not accept Castro's poisoned gift of 1100 doctors

I think we should accept them, then offer them all asylum.

181 posted on 09/04/2005 5:23:46 AM PDT by FarmerW
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To: Anti-Bubba182

bump


182 posted on 09/04/2005 5:25:45 AM PDT by RippleFire ("It's a joke, son!")
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To: NaughtiusMaximus
Years ago, IIRC, we were informed that in the event of a disaster (blizzard, flood, tornadoes), we should expect it to take up to 3 weeks for help to arrive. Things seems actually a bit faster these days. This advice came before they had prepositioned supply caches.

We keep a generator and the gas to run it, a case of drinking water, 6 weeks of food, a month of medications plus standard first aid, shortwave, batteries, tools and still, when we read about disasters, we always discover other things we should have stocked. We always have firewood left over after winter, camp stoves and the gas to run them, charcoal, etc. We have access to a river for water for flushing, but we would dig a latrine because our septic system requires electricity to pump into the drainage field and we would want to stretch the gas supply. Oh, and yes: we have guns and ammo, too.

So far, thank God, we have been without power and with impassable roads for no more than 4 days and that was in the summer after a huge storm. We and all our neighbors survived quite easily on our own.

There was an article from the Gulf Coast about food, cigarettes, beer and gas being barter items. One anecdote was about trading food for TV-watching.

I guess the worst case would be a nuclear attack, in which case, I would expect we would have to fend for ourselves for months or more.I would want to free up the Guard for more important duties.
183 posted on 09/04/2005 6:00:42 AM PDT by reformedliberal (Bless our troops and pray for our nation.)
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To: cgbg

I think the first rule of survival is "Be Observant: Notice What's Going On All Around You." Anyone who was obeying that rule is now alive and healthy somewhere in Texas, Arkansas or Oklahoma. With a very few exceptions, the individuals who stayed in the path of the hurricane were victims of a nannystate mentality who couldn't believe that, when the chips were really and truly down, Nanny would hike up her skirts, split and leave them stranded for a few days with no one to rely on but themselves. Other victims, such as those who live in Baton Rouge, simply couldn't believe that a tidal wave of refugees would deprive them of their access to goods and services. Y2K was good practice, education and training for those willing to learn from it With winter coming, hordes of refugees on the roads, and several important aspects of the economy in flux, it's a good thing to stay alert and be prepared.


184 posted on 09/04/2005 6:03:14 AM PDT by NaughtiusMaximus (The liberals promised to move to Canada but they lied . . . bwaaaaah.)
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To: leadpenny

And good on you, Leadpenny. I live in a tourist mecca which is generally jammed to the gunnels on Labor Day Weekend. Yesterday was quieter than an off season Sunday. The local county fair, which the influx of liberal diletantes has tranformed into some kind of festival of ideological reorientation was virtually deserted. People are staying at home with their families. The smart folks here are buying up or cutting all the firewood they can in anticipation of a rough winter and skyrocketing natural gas costs while the liberals debate the ethical nature of putting particulate gasses into the air in the form of woodsmoke.


185 posted on 09/04/2005 6:11:50 AM PDT by NaughtiusMaximus (The liberals promised to move to Canada but they lied . . . bwaaaaah.)
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To: Dahoser

The reason the police force in New Orleans collapsed is the same reason a thug in Atlanta was able to grab a gun and shoot up a courtroom and then flee the scene--a police department run by incompetents.


186 posted on 09/04/2005 6:20:12 AM PDT by libsl (I'm just sayin'....)
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To: NaughtiusMaximus

In after the zot.


187 posted on 09/04/2005 6:22:16 AM PDT by neuron2
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To: Anti-Bubba182
I posted this info on another thread last night. Here it is again.

I just left a baseball game in OKC and sat in front of an FBI agent and talked with him during the game. According to him, NO police dept is authorized 2100 officers. Before the storm, normal attrition had reduced the force to 1800 active officers on duty. He stated there are now less than 800 NOPD officers (1000+ have quit). Many have just walked off the job and disappeared. Others have joined the street gangs. Federal law enforcement is heavily involved and many of the NOPD will be in jail when it is all over. Federal SWAT teams have been operating for several days and "taking out the trash". He says there is much going on behind the scenes that most people will never know about, but the house cleaning has been underway for several days and progress has been substantial

regards - red

188 posted on 09/04/2005 6:34:25 AM PDT by rednek (if it isn't large caliber, it isn't worth carrying)
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To: reformedliberal

Good on you Reformedliberal. You and your family are obviously one group of people who can learn from the experience of others. You're in before the Zot and I wish you were my neighbors. (Or maybe not, my self-righteous liberal neighbors purport to be vegans. Nevertheless, they are pleasingly plump. I have a plan to turn them into jerky if I need to.)


189 posted on 09/04/2005 6:51:36 AM PDT by NaughtiusMaximus (The liberals promised to move to Canada but they lied . . . bwaaaaah.)
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To: Anti-Bubba182

**When it became apparent that disorder in New Orleans should be the most immediate priority, the National Guard waited until they had enough forces in hand to make an overwhelming show of force, he said.**

BTTT!

They cannot blame the Guard or the President. There are so many other factors involved -- such as this one!


190 posted on 09/04/2005 7:00:42 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: calreaganfan

If you want to add editorial contents to the title, the mods allow you to enclose them in parentheses after the title. But yep, we want the real headlines here. If you don't like it, take it up with the boss.


191 posted on 09/04/2005 7:06:19 AM PDT by CFC__VRWC ("Anytime a liberal squeals in outrage, an angel gets its wings!" - gidget7)
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To: Howlin
I'd look to make sure, but apparently THE STALINIST MODERATOR KILLED IT!

I actually posted a nice answer to this clown before I scrolled down and noticed he just wouldn't let go of the whole "censorship" thing and earned himself a few hundred thousand volts. No doubt he's already over at LP telling his sad story.

192 posted on 09/04/2005 7:10:34 AM PDT by CFC__VRWC ("Anytime a liberal squeals in outrage, an angel gets its wings!" - gidget7)
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To: NaughtiusMaximus
LOL!

We live in an area chock full of Green, vegan, counter culturists. Every few years, they panic over something like the Pole Shift and hold meetings on survival. It always boils down to "save seeds", starting a newsletter and phone trees and demands to the small town and County officials to set up public shelters! Needless to say, the rural pols just stare at them and say:"What do you exactly expect us to do?"

Years ago, we attended one of these meetings out of curiosity. One guy just said he would spend any emergency period "in a ditch, keeping my head down."

Frankly, we have a plethora of corn fed deer and rabbits who spend their lives eating my garden. Much better than vegans, who probably taste somewhat like those awful soy-based sausages they resemble.

We have always found that waiting for others to get their act in gear is very hard on our BP. We have friends who are ranchers and farmers and we have a loose agreement of mutual support, mostly skills for fresh beef/pork/chickens. DH can fix, build or fabricate most anything in wood or metal and I keep a treadle sewing machine w/all the attachments besides being a feltmaker. Skills are as vital as goods, of course. We also have a large, thriving Amish community here and we are hearing news of 30-40 Chassidic families moving into a 200-300 acre area they purchased. There are a lot of self-suffient folks to trade with if/when TSHTF. The lefties will still be organizing committees to shift responsibility when whatever disaster hits.

However, most of us do not panic at the slightest whiff of a storm or something like Y2K. As someone posted in the past couple of days: it is about logistics. You ask HOW to get WHAT to WHERE and then calculate WHEN. Presupply and a decent, flexible plan obviates the need to spend years trying to do things via consensus. There will always be contingencies we neglected, so we have to stay alert.
193 posted on 09/04/2005 7:22:50 AM PDT by reformedliberal (Bless our troops and pray for our nation.)
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To: cgbg; Wolfstar; Howlin; nopardons; Peach; All
The breakdown of rescue and relief efforts can all be traced to A FAILURE OF LEADERSHIP FROM MAYOR RAY NAGIN AND GOVERNOR BLANCO!!

New Orleans Law Officers, Overwhelmed, Are Quitting the Force At Least 200 New Orleans Officers Walk of Job, Two Committ Suicide

The National Guard has come under criticism for not moving more quickly into New Orleans to help stem the upheaval. But Lt. Gen. H. Steven Blum, the head of the National Guard Bureau, told reporters on Saturday that the Guard had not moved in sooner because it had not anticipated the collapse of civilian law enforcement.

"The real issue, particularly in New Orleans, is that no one anticipated the disintegration or the erosion of the civilian police force in New Orleans," General Blum said.

Some patrol officers said morale had been low on the force even before the hurricane. One patrolman said the complaints included understaffing and a lack of equipment.

"We have to use our own shotguns," said the patrolman, who did not want to be identified by name. "This isn't theirs; this is my personal gun."

Another patrol officer said that many of the officers who had quit were younger, inexperienced officers who were overwhelmed by the task.

But the stress is clearly getting to most of the officers on the force, especially those who patrol the streets and have found little or no support services, no place to billet and limited radio communications.

At dusk on Friday, officers at one precinct in the French Quarter cordoned off the block where their precinct sat and, armed with shotguns, stopped and inspected every car that passed.

"We're not writing tickets anymore," said one officer who pointed a shotgun into a car carrying two newspaper reporters. The journalists were allowed to proceed, but were warned not to pass the checkpoint again.

Both the Police and Fire Departments are being forced to triage the calls they get for help.

The firefighters are simply not responding to some fires. In some cases, they cannot get through the flooding. But in others, they decide not to send trucks because they are needed for more serious fires.

"We can't fight every fire the way we did in the past and try to put it out," Superintendent Parent told a group of firefighters on Saturday morning at a promotion ceremony in the Algiers section of New Orleans, a dry area. "We've got to use our resources the best we can."

===============================================

When the police department and law enforcement infrastructure of a city of this size and this location just collapses under the pressure of NO leadership, NO direction, NO resources ... who're you gonna blame?? The President?? the National Guard?? FEMA?? Where was the mayor and HIS PLAN .. his responsibility and oversight of the police force, not to mention logical evacuation direction?

If people have to point fingers, point them at the true source of the problems. When you see the extent of corruption, malfeasance and negligence, it's clear that New Orleans was lucky to have survived this long unscathed .. this city was destined to implode.

194 posted on 09/04/2005 7:43:40 AM PDT by STARWISE (GITMO IS TOO GOOD FOR THE 911 TRAITORS -- SEND THEM ALL TO EGYPT FOR QUESTIONING.)
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To: calreaganfan
"This site is becoming just like the left-wing sites with their ham-fisted censorship."

Get real...
195 posted on 09/04/2005 7:44:11 AM PDT by Texas_Jarhead
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To: Howlin
The Police are now commiting SUICIDE. (THIS WEEK w/ Steffie)

196 posted on 09/04/2005 7:58:03 AM PDT by Wolverine (A Concerned Citizen)
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To: Anti-Bubba182
"The real issue, particularly in New Orleans, is that no one anticipated the disintegration or the erosion of the civilian police force in New Orleans," Blum told reporters here.

Bull. Anyone who knew anything about the NOPD did. And the mayor sure should have. And Nagin should never have bugged out to Baton Rouge. I wonder if any of the higher ups in the NOPD went with him?

197 posted on 09/04/2005 7:59:56 AM PDT by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: STARWISE
CNN has reported that 200 cops walked off the job... 2 committed suicide.

The story is being manipulated by the MSM to blame Bush for EVERYTHING in NOLA!

198 posted on 09/04/2005 8:21:15 AM PDT by johnny7 (“And now, little man, I give the watch to you.”)
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To: STARWISE

Bump


199 posted on 09/04/2005 8:24:09 AM PDT by Darnright ( Deja Moo: The feeling that you've heard this bull before)
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To: leadpenny; Howlin
I miss calreaganfan.

She/He is on the short bus now, dressed as a football player (pads and all!) and her/his drink has one of those bending straws.

And they say that Stalinist don't care!

200 posted on 09/04/2005 8:42:18 AM PDT by battlegearboat
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