Many Evacuated, but Thousands Still Waiting(still no state of emergency in LA)

Washington Post ^ | 9-4-2005 | By Manuel Roig-Franzia and Spencer Hsu

[aft_lizard]

Behind the scenes, a power struggle emerged, as federal officials tried to wrest authority from Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D). Shortly before midnight Friday, the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state's emergency operations center said Saturday.

The administration sought unified control over all local police and state National Guard units reporting to the governor. Louisiana officials rejected the request after talks throughout the night, concerned that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law. Some officials in the state suspected a political motive behind the request. "Quite frankly, if they'd been able to pull off taking it away from the locals, they then could have blamed everything on the locals," said the source, who does not have the authority to speak publicly.

A senior administration official said that Bush has clear legal authority to federalize National Guard units to quell civil disturbances under the Insurrection Act and will continue to try to unify the chains of command that are split among the president, the Louisiana governor and the New Orleans mayor.

Louisiana did not reach out to a multi-state mutual aid compact for assistance until Wednesday, three state and federal officials said. As of Saturday, Blanco still had not declared a state of emergency, the senior Bush official said.

"The federal government stands ready to work with state and local officials to secure New Orleans and the state of Louisiana," White House spokesman Dan Bartlett said. "The president will not let any form of bureaucracy get in the way of protecting the citizens of Louisiana."

[Cboldt]

I just looked up the definition in Black's Law Dictionary - and Martial Law is defined as military exercize of authority that is normally handled by civil authority. Civil authority is everything from parking and traffic laws, to crime prevention, mitigation, response and prosecution. "Military government" is a good synonym here.

Suffice to say that the term "martial law" is indefinite in its own right; is okay in casual conversation, but for substantive discussion it's better to go one layer below and inquire as to who is in charge of what, who is "making the laws," and where do the people turn for aid, police, and justice.

Complexity in the US is that the authority can be state, local, National Guard (under state control), etc. There are lots of permutations. Fortunately for us, the bias is to return control of civil liberty and civil order to the people and their elected government.

[Lee Stetson]

Well, this is not proof, but if you open the adobe link, click on "view, source" in your menu and then look for the last "mod-date" in the code you will see "20050826" as the date. Now a really computer savvy person could have created it with an old date, but I would think that unlikely.
Or am I just naive?

[painter]

it is sometimes better to break the rules and ask for forgiveness later.

,...and for his reward for doing that? Letters of impeachment from the democrats in the House!

[Eastbound]

"Fortunately for us, the bias is to return control of civil liberty and civil order to the people and their elected government."

Yes, very fortunate that our president (CIC) is a civilian -- insuring civil control of the military. I think it's an unbeatable system.

[little jeremiah]

There's an old Bengali (I think) saying that goes something like this:

When the lion walks by, the jackals bark.

With the implication that the lion doesn't pay any attention to the jackals' howling and barking.

I don't see any MSM, but from what I've been reading on FR, it looks as though anyone who isn't certifiably nuts will see that Mayor "I am not a drug addict" Nagin, the Lady Gov, and Mary "Punchy" Landreiu are criminally liable for much of this disaster.

[nicmarlo]

Perhaps it wasn't manipulated....and that kind of "genius" hasn't been displayed to date from any elected official within Louisiana government, so perhaps it was actually made on that date.

OTOH, I do not think it improper to wonder if someone would have manipulated the date (not suggesting you thought that), because we really are looking at this travesty and tragedy containing criminal elements and/or charges of incompetence and neglect of duties to the people of Louisiana.

[kittymyrib]

I think they are scared spitless that someone is going to finally ask where all their FEMA and Homeland Security money was spent if it wasn't on preparedness. That should be the first Congressional investigation on this event. Someone got the money. Who?

[Paulyn]

Yes, it is Bush's fault. He appointed both Certoff and Brown to their positions. The Republicans are in charge of all three branches of service. Why would it be anyone else's fault?

Besides that is a lie about the LA Governor. I quote. "Governor Richardson from New Mexico offered National Guard Assistance on SUNDAY NIGHT, before the storm hit. She accepted, BUT paperwork needed to get the troops en route didn't come from Washington until THURSDAY."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050903/ap_on_re_us/katrina_national_guard

[little jeremiah]

From what I've been reading on FR (my only news source - who needs another?) Louisiana sounds like a veritable snake pit. Not counting the cotton mouths and water moccasins.

[little jeremiah]

I mean the politicians and beaurocracies - and whoever feeds off of them.

Obviously there innocents caught up in the whole cesspool.

[A CA Guy]

The President should come on and simply say that local officials have failed to declare a state of emergency in the state and as President, he is declaring it to best serve the people of that state.

[Polybius]

Yes, it is Bush's fault. He appointed both Certoff and Brown to their positions. The Republicans are in charge of all three branches of service. Why would it be anyone else's fault? Besides that is a lie about the LA Governor.

What is a lie? Any of this?

**********************

Behind the scenes, a power struggle emerged, as federal officials tried to wrest authority from Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D). Shortly before midnight Friday, the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state's emergency operations center said Saturday.

The administration sought unified control over all local police and state National Guard units reporting to the governor. Louisiana officials rejected the request after talks throughout the night, concerned that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law.

**********************

In case you have not noticed, we are a constitutional Federal Republic and not an absolute monarchy.

It is illegal for the President of the United States to barge in and take over control if the Governor stonewalls, which she did.

The true disaster of Katrina was not the anarchy and the looting. That is penny ante stuff.

The true disaster of Katrina is the fact that 200,000 low income residents were abandoned by an incompetent Governor and Mayor in a "flood bowl" that scientists had all but guaranteed would catastrophically flood in a Category 4 storm because the Governor and the Mayor had no evacuation plan in place for their 200,000 low-income citizens.

A FEMA Hurricane disaster exercise conducted in 2004 was modeled on catastrophic flood damage from a hypothetical "Hurricane Pam" that was modeled as only a slow-moving Category 3 storm. (Katrina was predicted to be a Category 5).

It was a given fact that staying within the New Orleans flood bowl ( yes, it is so far below sea level that scientists actually call it a "bowl") was suicidal so the Hurricane Pam Exercise specifically modeled to have "one million residents evacuated" BEFORE the storm struck.

Once that evacuation was completed (yes, including the 200,000 low-income residents that the Governor and Mayor left stranded like drowning rats in the New Orleans flood bowl), the Hurricane Pam scenario stated, "State resources are adequate to operate shelters for the first 3-5 days."

The Federal Government cannot be at all places at all times all across the 50 States and, in any case, it is folly to send your equipment, supplies and personnel on the move into the teeth of the storm so that they too can be destroyed or crippled. Therefore, the 3-5 day lag in the Federal surge of support supplies was part of the Hurricane Pam scenario plan.

State resources would have been adequate if the incompetent of the Governor and Mayor had not changed the Hurricane Pam scenario from:

1. "Shelter one million evacuated people"

to

2. "Shelter 800,000 evacuated people and then rescue 200,000 unevacuated low-income people abandoned in the New Orleans flood bowl".

No troops to quell a "Lord of the Flies" situation would have been necessary if those 200,000 low-income citizens had not been abandonded inside the "flood bowl".

Hurricane Pam Exercise Concludes.(2004 New Orleans Disaster Prediction)

The Louisiana Evacuation Plan supplement, most recently revised in 2000. Page 13, paragraph 5 states: "5. The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating. "

That is how the low-income people that did not own cars were supposed to get out the New Orleans flood bowl that experts almost guaranteed was going to catastrophically flood with a Category 4 storm.

Instead an incompetent Governor and an incompetent Mayor left those 200,000 people stranded in an area that the Hurricane Pam scenario predicted would be devastated.

Those two idiots had to have Bush begging them to order an evacuation.

Those two idiots refused to allow the Federal Government to handle the evacuation.

Those two idiots ran away to Baton Rouge and left the bus transportation called for by the Louisiana Evacuation Plan, page 13, paragraph 5 in neatly parked rows thereby dooming 200,000 low-income citizens to the hell of a catastrophically flooded New Orleans flood bowl.

"Bush's fault?"

Bullsh#t!

[TAdams8591]

The president should have stepped in and declared Marahsll Law, ordered the city evacuated and sent in the military BEFORE the hurricane struck. Yes, the president DOES INDEED deserve some of the blame.

If something like this EVER happens again, and there is an incompetent Mayor and Governor who are NOT willing to do what NEEDS to be done, whoever is president at that time must realize he is going to have to step in, take control and evacuate BEFOREHAND if it is an instance where there has been forewarning as there was in this case.

[TAdams8591]

"I don't see any MSM, but from what I've been reading on FR, it looks as though anyone who isn't certifiably nuts will see that Mayor "I am not a drug addict" Nagin, the Lady Gov, and Mary "Punchy" Landreiu are criminally liable for much of this disaster."

Agreed. But they will NEVER be held accountable.

[DJ MacWoW]

The president should have stepped in and declared Marahsll Law, ordered the city evacuated and sent in the military BEFORE the hurricane struck. Yes, the president DOES INDEED deserve some of the blame.

This is illegal even AFTER the hurricane. The Federal government cannot just take over a state. This has been discussed ad nauseum on FR.

If something like this EVER happens again, and there is an incompetent Mayor and Governor who are NOT willing to do what NEEDS to be done, whoever is president at that time must realize he is going to have to step in, take control and evacuate BEFOREHAND

Again. This is illegal. New Orleans and La have the officials they elected. Even now, Gov Blanco will not relinquish ANY control to the Feds. It is illegal for Bush to do anything other than what she says.

[TAdams8591]

DJ you can go on and on about the law all you want. The law is NOT clear on all of this and precedents have been established in history. Frankly, many are of the opinion that the entire civil war was unconstitutional.

Regardless of the legalities, you cannot worry about the "rule of law" when such a massive number of lives are at stake.

There is a lot of defensiveness on the part of many on FR, and Republicans and Conservatives throughout the nation regarding such an opinion because as we all know, the Democrats are just itching to have something to hang on the Presidents head. They cannot fairly and in all sincerity, criticize the president without first and foremost criticizing the Mayor of NO and the Governor of LA. But they have done so ANYWAY which is OUTRAGEOUS.

When we are discussing serious, impending situations which involve the loss of innocent life, whether it is one or thousands, do NOT use legal arguments with me, ever. They won't wash. Innocent lives always trump the "rule of law".

Had the president stepped in and taken control the way I previously outlined, after the levee broke, he NOT only would have been vindicated but would have been a HERO. The few STUPID DEMOCRATS who would still have insisted on criticizing him, would have looked silly and NONE of it would have stuck. Bedsides saving thousands of lives, the president would politically have been almost untouchable, a very helpful position in which to be, given that he now has a second Supreme Court nominee to appoint.

I have given this much thought and consideration because I never want to see something like this happen in our country again, particularly as a result of a NATURAL disaster. We are NOT going to agree. The president, as much as it pains me to say so, deserves SOME of the blame.

[little jeremiah]

They may not ever be held accountable by the courts of men (although they should be) but someday each will be held to account.

Of that I have not the slightest doubt.

[TAdams8591]

I should have qualified my point. You are absolutely right. In times like this, I find it is that reality which is my only comfort.

[little jeremiah]

I knew you felt that way too.

In fact, it is my solace day and night. Not just that justice will always be served perfectly, but the mercy is there as well - if we beg for it.

And the justice IS mercy, as well.

[DJ MacWoW]

DJ you can go on and on about the law all you want. The law is NOT clear on all of this and precedents have been established in history.

The law IS clear. Would you be saying this if it was Clinton? Basically states are responsible for their own preparedness. After a disaster they tell the Feds what they need. None of that was ever done.

Other federal and state officials pointed to Louisiana's failure to measure up to national disaster response standards, noting that the federal plan advises state and local emergency managers not to expect federal aid for 72 to 96 hours, and base their own preparedness efforts on the need to be self-sufficient for at least that period. "Fundamentally the first breakdown occurred at the local level," said one state official who works with FEMA. 'Did the city have the situational awareness of what was going on within its borders? The answer was no."

check out this quote from the WaPo: