Katrina Live Thread, Part XIV

Seems they would have at least had emergency supplies and relocation areas more readily available.

Yeah, they ONLY had 250 shelter sites set up with meals and water... before the hurricane ever hit. They're feeding and sheltering ONLY hundreds of thousands of people.

But of course, that's not where the cameras go. The cameras go to the places where the people refused to leave.

Not real big on that "practice what you preach" thing, are we?

no not when i come under attack for asking for suggestions as to help my family. I don't bite first, I bite back

"I've been watching the journal of someone who lives in New Orleans. A friend is posting for him as he journies out of the city. Apparently there are still payphones working in the city (???), he had a meal this evening, and does not feel overly concerned for his safety and he is at the convention center."

That's good to hear. Sounds like they might have food, drink, and better security there now. Sometimes the internet is the only way to get the true facts out. On the other hand, I would still feel much better if they get ALL the women, children, sick, and elderly out of the convention center and dome tomorrow AS A PRIORITY.

A couple of observations:

Leading up to the storm there was very little pressure from Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco to impress upon the people of NO that they needed to pay attention to this storm. Emphasis needs to be made that this was while they had access to most people through local media that eventually would be knocked off the air. We've all seen the buses and heard of the 80% of the population that evacuated when they saw the storm was coming. Personally, I know of at least two people who didn't have to be told twice to get out of town. And they did and they're both safe.

During the storm we were lead to believe by the media that NO had "dodged a bullet" mostly because the reporters were snug in French Quarter balconies. We learned quickly that they were wrong. The mayor told people to go to the Superdome as he had in storms previously so they could ride it out for a day and then go home.

But, between the time the storm hit and the levee broke those folks could have been evacuated but they weren't. Why not? This leads to a host of other questions which ultimately lead to the only possible conclusion: the governor and the mayor had no plan. By way of comparison I've been in Florida and Maryland for hurricanes and in both states the governors have not only had plans but have been specific in instructing the people in what to do, where to go, etc. This didn't happen in NO.

After the flood it was the responsibility of local leaders (parish presidents, mayor, governor) to direct law enforcement and aid to specific areas based on need and local knowledge. This didn't happen. One reason law enforcement didn't respond as quickly was because the mayor had issued an executive order that all NOPD officers must live in NO. Naturally, the officers were more concerned with their families than their jobs. I can't blame them.

They say that we are 48-72 hours from anarchy in this country and NO has proven that claim to be true. While the storm was still raging thugs were already looting and when they saw no police presence they got bolder. Until we see the mess that they've created.

I listened to the mayor last night rage against the president and today the governor talked about establishing a foundation while NO burned. That's not leadership. They pleaded for troops that are prevented by law from entering the city or are direceted by the governor. They complained about aid being mismanaged but it is their direction that moves that aid.

Here's an example: You've got so many tons of aid or troops and you have just arrived from Arkansas. You show up at a rally point and wait for someone from the state or mayor's office to provide you with local LE guides to the affected areas. You don't know the roads and you don't know if the area is safe so you rely on the locals. Just one problem: No one is there to help you. Multiply that by thousands of aid and NG people and you get the picture.

Meanwhile, we see 24 hour newsies lamenting the fact that people in their immediate surroundings aren't being helped. If the president was Clinton he would have ordered that a Blackhawk helicopter drop a crate of water on Shepard Smith's head and that would be the end of it.

Everything we're watching is what is called the "cascade effect" meaning that as mistakes are made they lead to more and more mistakes until there's a complete breakdown. The mayor and governor didn't have a plan so they couldn't direct local assets and when it got out of control they blamed the feds. Who were trying to get in to the city but they didn't know where to go or how to get there.

But none of this explains why things are so bad when we see people suffering like they are. That problem is a whole other issue. Why wouldn't folks just walk to the freeway and walk until they found safety? Why would they just sit in the Superdome and convention center and wait and die?

I think this article explains it best. I've been to places in this country where snowstorms can kill, where earthquakes can kill, where mudslides and monsoons can kill, and where hurricanes can kill but I've never seen so many people die because they waited to be told what to do.

Lastly, I'm sure that the media will be content to hang all of this on Bush's head, there's just one problem: He's a lame duck. So that won't get any democrats elected. But they can rest assured that this will firmly be remembered as preventable if only the troops in Iraq were home. There's just one problem: The LA NG troops are a mechanized division and they would not be deployed under these conditions. The troops that would be used in this case are in fact being sent to NO now. Also, the media won't (by and large) chase down the backstory but someone here or elsewhere will and when they do some digging I think the results will be staggering. Where did all the money that has been taxed and spent at every level to prepare for this anticipated event go and who was in charge. Right now the left is hammering that Bush cut funding for levee restoration but the cold reality is that the levees were constructed for a Cat III storm at most and conservative estimates put studies at 6 years to design Cat V conditions which would take as much as 30 years to complete.

In all probability the good people of NO that got out will stay out and assimilate in to their new host states. The French Quarter will be rebuilt and eventually prosper. But unless the rest of the city is a wholly owned federal enterprise don't expect to see projects rebuilt after they burn to the ground. After all there truly is no such thing as a free lunch.

to whoever was asking about scanner links, I have this page:
http://scannerfeeds.us

1st feed is NG/State police command Freq
2nd is Air Tactical, and Baton Rouge/West Suburbs NO state police tactical

Well from what I've heard they can bus them out but there is no where to take them. That's not being prepared and they've had years to plan on where to relocate if the levy breaks.

They are taking them to Texas and you cannot plan on where to take refugees out of state until you have refugees and states willing to accept them. Right now it appears that Texas is taking 95% of them and I am not happy about it.

Bizarre, wasn't it?

I'm telling you right now that this may be the end for Bush since the GOP is about to run for cover.

What ever would make you think that? Could it be because nobody is defending Bush and Frist is thinking about hearings to look into what went wrong before the last person is even rescued?

Yes in a different parish.....Have we heard whether they've been rescued yet?

Me too! Scarey to think about some of the prisoners that caused the problems in the dome ended up on buses to Houston according to a report on WWL last night by a doctor who was in the Dome.

Thanks for correcting me...I couldn't exactly remember when it became known...

That one is a head scratcher for me...I can't figure out how that building could have 30,000 people like the policeman said on H&C, and it not be known for 2 days!! Weird.

I was shocked when he said there were that many people in there...

Number 6 station alone (4 pumps), moves 850 cu ft of water per second! About 5,000 gallons per second, 300,000 gallons of water per minute, etc.

Just got home from a wedding. The warnings about gas this weekend are either 1) true or 2) giving station owners carte blache to gouge.

Example: as of 12:45am EST, a major gas station in Kingsbridge, Bronx had caution tape over the pumps with signs saying "out of regular and plus" Of course you could get premium for $3.89.

It's kind of worrisome....I think this may turn around and bite us in the rear. A lot of these folks will stay and end up on OUR welfare rolls. But for now it's nice getting all the media adulation for Governor Perry's generosity.

SCANNER- 200-300 people trapped inside a church in NO east (1 Block north of Loyola?)

New Orders - Busses MUST HAVE ESCORTS

Really! It's sad that these people have lived in such a bubble that they have no clue that a huge portion of our country isn't racist, but we don't like gangsters, don't find it "cool" or "hip" or whatever they think it may be.

I would love to get hold of all these small children and babies and give them a normal upbringing...

I wasn't talking about a fancy tanker,,just something that could safely transport gas

Is there a Heavy and Highway construction company near you? They have service trucks that can carry quite a bit of gas. They are also high riding so they could probably get through some of the tough spots. Give them a call as ask. It sure wouldn't hurt.

Some of your comments lead me to believe you are not entirely familiar with basic hurricane preparation. In what area of the country do you live?

There was enough good warning for all sensible people to leave on Friday. I would have.

I've been through many hurricanes. I have evacuated for one. Hugo.

You need to evacuate before the official announcement is made. Once they say 'RUN !!', it's too late. Too late to run easy anyway, and there is the danger of being stuck in traffic and doing the storm in a car.

Run soon, before it becomes obvious to everyone that running is the best option. Or stay put prepared for the worst.

Makes more sense to make a huge delivery with trucks. And speaking of trucks, there is limited access to the area. Big trucks with heavy loads can't travel on many secondary roads because of their weight.

A few Ch-47's and/or Ch-53's wouldn't hurt anything, every little bit helps.

CH47 link

CH47

Max gross: 50,000 lbs. Empty: 23,401 lbs.

CH-53 link.

CH-53Maximum takeoff weight:

Internal load: 69,750 pounds

External load: 73,500 pounds