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Is it time to divert the Mississippi? (Vanity)
8/31/2005 | LonePalm

Posted on 08/31/2005 4:40:59 PM PDT by LonePalm

I am posting this question to our Louisiana FReepers in an effort to prompt discussion. It is meant only as a question, I do not know the answer.

About every thousand years or so the Mississippi River changes course. Right now the current channel of the Mississippi is NOT preferred course for the river. Left to its own devices, the river would divert down the Atchafalaya basin.

My question is, should we demolish the Old River Control Structure and allow the Mississippi to seek its new path? Then we build a new New Orleans.

I understand that this would cut off the ports of New Orleans and Baton Rouge and would be VERY expensive.

But might we be better as a nation if we do this NOW rather than later?

Consider this scenario: We go through the expense of rebuilding New Orleans and then in say 2015 we get a very snowy winter in the upper midwest and great plains followed by a rainy and rapid thaw. The Old River Control Structure and Low Sill structures fail. After we scrape Morgan City off the Yucatan Peninsula, we are still left with Baton Rouge and New Orleans low and dry.


TOPICS: US: Louisiana; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: neworleans; recovery
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To: LonePalm

The folks in Morgan City are plucking many chickens and boiling a big tarpot.....in your honor....if they catch you.


21 posted on 08/31/2005 5:20:28 PM PDT by stboz
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To: DoughtyOne
Raising New Orleans will NOT change the fact that the Mississippi does NOT want to go where it is going. It WANTS to go down the Atchafalaya River. Eventually it will, no matter what we do.

Geology rules.

Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)

LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)

22 posted on 08/31/2005 5:21:13 PM PDT by LonePalm (Commander and Chef)
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To: GeorgiaDawg32
Attempting to change nature usually invokes the "Law of Unintended Consequences". Although it may seem fine at the time, the consequences of such a diversion would produce consequences not thought of that may or may not (as is usually the case) be good.

I think we just had the unintended consequence. I may be wrong but I think the Mississippi would be using the Atchafalaya today if not for the dams and canals the Corps of Engineers control to kepp it on its present course.

23 posted on 08/31/2005 5:25:16 PM PDT by centexan (Go 1st Cav and 4th ID)
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To: muawiyah
Good point. We can currently divert at least some of the traffic to Mobile during the time that we are re-building the Mississippi port infrastructure.

The Ten-Tom is a long way around but I am trying to look at the long term. I want this country to prosper long after I am gone.

Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)

LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)

24 posted on 08/31/2005 5:26:45 PM PDT by LonePalm (Commander and Chef)
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To: LonePalm

Thanks for the response.


25 posted on 08/31/2005 5:28:07 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (US socialist liberalism would be dead without the help of politicians who claim to be conservative.)
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To: GeorgiaDawg32
Attempting to change nature usually invokes the "Law of Unintended Consequences". Although it may seem fine at the time, the consequences of such a diversion would produce consequences not thought of that may or may not (as is usually the case) be good.

Actually, if we had let "nature take its course" the Mighty Mississippi would have made a change in course. It is man's intervention that has kept it on its present course.

26 posted on 08/31/2005 5:30:02 PM PDT by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: WildTurkey

LeMoyne's own riverine engineers recognized the man wanted to build his city ON THE WRONG SIDE OF THE RIVER.


27 posted on 08/31/2005 5:34:12 PM PDT by muawiyah (/ hey coach do I gotta' put in that "/sarcasm " thing again?)
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To: LonePalm

That should certainly increase the price of petrochemicals and plastics. The Mississippi between Baton Rouge and New Orleans is called 'Cancer Alley' for a reason.


28 posted on 08/31/2005 5:36:00 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: centexan
"I may be wrong but I think the Mississippi would be using the Atchafalaya today if not for the dams and canals the Corps of Engineers control to keep it on its present course."

I believe this is correct. The Mississippi would prefer the shorter course to the sea. And the reason for diverting water from the cut off was was to ensure that it did not leave New Orleans as a dead port city stranded on a stinking scum choked cut off oxbow.
29 posted on 08/31/2005 5:39:28 PM PDT by Pete from Shawnee Mission
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To: LonePalm

Why not just turn Nawlins into the Venice of the United States? They have the water. All they need now is the garbage and the gondolas.


30 posted on 08/31/2005 5:40:03 PM PDT by Lunkhead_01
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To: satchmodog9

It would make sense to phase out the port and build up the ports at Mobile and Houston since the chance of a storm hitting both of them that far apart is miniscule. No more putting all our eggs in one basket. It's not good for homeland security either.


31 posted on 08/31/2005 5:42:07 PM PDT by kittymyrib
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To: EagleUSA

YES! Now we can say it-IT'S CLINTONS FAULT! (see post 9)


32 posted on 08/31/2005 5:45:55 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: LonePalm
This would be a mammoth project parallelling the Hoover Dam, IMHO.

People still seem to lack a basic appreciation of just how powerful rivers and lakes can be.

33 posted on 08/31/2005 5:48:05 PM PDT by Mulder (“The spirit of resistance is so valuable, that I wish it to be always kept alive" Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Mulder
I never suggested that it would be easy. I do think that it might be worth it.

Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)

LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)

34 posted on 08/31/2005 5:50:56 PM PDT by LonePalm (Commander and Chef)
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To: Pete from Shawnee Mission
And the reason for diverting water from the cut off was was to ensure that it did not leave New Orleans as a dead port city stranded on a stinking scum choked cut off oxbow.

Baton Rouge, too.

The Corps nearly lost the Old River Control Structure in the 1973 flood.

35 posted on 08/31/2005 5:55:05 PM PDT by stboz
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To: stboz
The Corps nearly lost the Old River Control Structure in the 1973 flood.

Yes, I know. That is one of the reasons I asked the question.

Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)

LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)

36 posted on 08/31/2005 5:59:04 PM PDT by LonePalm (Commander and Chef)
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To: LonePalm

Doesn't the Achafalaya get about a third of the Mississippi flow anyway?


37 posted on 08/31/2005 6:07:42 PM PDT by stboz
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To: Enchante
"In the space of one hundred and seventy-six years the Mississippi has shortened itself two hundred and forty-two miles. Therefore... in the Old Silurian Period, the Mississippi River was upward of one million three hundred thousand miles long... seven hundred and forty-two years from now the Mississippi will be only a mile and three-quarters long. There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesome returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact."

-Mark Twain

38 posted on 08/31/2005 6:08:49 PM PDT by Cincinnatus
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To: Cincinnatus
Actually the whole segment from Mark Twain's "Life on the Mississippi" is appropriate for this discussion:

THESE dry details are of importance in one particular. They give me an opportunity of introducing one of the Mississippi's oddest peculiarities,--that of shortening its length from time to time.
If you will throw a long, pliant apple-paring over your shoulder, it will pretty fairly shape itself into an average section of the Mississippi River; that is, the nine or ten hundred miles stretching from Cairo, Illinois, southward to New Orleans, the same being wonderfully crooked, with a brief straight bit here and there at wide intervals. The two hundred-mile stretch from Cairo northward to St. Louis is by no means so crooked, that being a rocky country which the river cannot cut much.

The water cuts the alluvial banks of the 'lower' river into deep horseshoe curves; so deep, indeed, that in some places if you were to get ashore at one extremity of the horseshoe and walk across the neck, half or three quarters of a mile, you could sit down and rest a couple of hours while your steamer was coming around the long elbow, at a speed of ten miles an hour, to take you aboard again.
When the river is rising fast, some scoundrel whose plantation is back in the country, and therefore of inferior value, has only to watch his chance, cut a little gutter across the narrow neck of land some dark night, and turn the water into it, and in a wonderfully short time a miracle has happened: to wit, the whole Mississippi has taken possession of that little ditch, and placed the countryman's plantation on its bank (quadrupling its value), and that other party's formerly valuable plantation finds itself away out yonder on a big island; the old watercourse around it will soon shoal up, boats cannot approach within ten miles of it, and down goes its value to a fourth of its former worth. Watches are kept on those narrow necks, at needful times, and if a man happens to be caught cutting a ditch across them, the chances are all against his ever having another opportunity to cut a ditch.

Pray observe some of the effects of this ditching business. Once there was a neck opposite Port Hudson, Louisiana, which was only half a mile across, in its narrowest place. You could walk across there in fifteen minutes; but if you made the journey around the cape on a raft, you traveled thirty-five miles to accomplish the same thing. In 1722 the river darted through that neck, deserted its old bed, and thus shortened itself thirty-five miles. In the same way it shortened itself twenty-five miles at Black Hawk Point in 1699. Below Red River Landing, Raccourci cut-off was made (forty or fifty years ago, I think). This shortened the river twenty-eight miles. In our day, if you travel by river from the southernmost of these three cut-offs to the northernmost, you go only seventy miles. To do the same thing a hundred and seventy-six years ago, one had to go a hundred and fifty-eight miles!--shortening of eighty-eight miles in that trifling distance. At some forgotten time in the past, cut-offs were made above Vidalia, Louisiana; at island 92; at island 84; and at Hale's Point. These shortened the river, in the aggregate, seventy-seven miles.

Since my own day on the Mississippi, cut-offs have been made at Hurricane Island; at island 100; at Napoleon, Arkansas; at Walnut Bend; and at Council Bend. These shortened the river, in the aggregate, sixty-seven miles. In my own time a cut-off was made at American Bend, which shortened the river ten miles or more.

Therefore, the Mississippi between Cairo and New Orleans was twelve hundred and fifteen miles long one hundred and seventy-six years ago. It was eleven hundred and eighty after the cut-off of 1722. It was one thousand and forty after the American Bend cut-off. It has lost sixty-seven miles since. Consequently its length is only nine hundred and seventy-three miles at present.

Now, if I wanted to be one of those ponderous scientific people, and 'let on' to prove what had occurred in the remote past by what had occurred in a given time in the recent past, or what will occur in the far future by what has occurred in late years, what an opportunity is here! Geology never had such a chance, nor such exact data to argue from! Nor 'development of species,' either! Glacial epochs are great things, but they are vague--vague. Please observe:--

In the space of one hundred and seventy-six years the Lower Mississippi has shortened itself two hundred and forty-two miles. That is an average of a trifle over one mile and a third per year. Therefore, any calm person, who is not blind or idiotic, can see that in the Old Oolitic Silurian Period ' just a million years ago next November, the Lower Mississippi River was upwards of one million three hundred thousand miles long, and stuck out over the Gulf of Mexico like a fishing-rod. And by the same token any person can see that seven hundred and forty-two years from now the Lower Mississippi will be only a mile and three-quarters long, and Cairo and New Orleans will have joined their streets together, and be plodding comfortably along under a single mayor and a mutual board of aldermen. There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.

When the water begins to flow through one of those ditches I have been speaking of, it is time for the people thereabouts to move. The water cleaves the banks away like a knife. By the time the ditch has become twelve or fifteen feet wide, the calamity is as good as accomplished, for no power on earth can stop it now. When the width has reached a hundred yards, the banks begin to peel off in slices half an acre wide. The current flowing around the bend traveled formerly only five miles an hour; now it is tremendously increased by the shortening of the distance. I was on board the first boat that tried to go through the cut-off at American Bend, but we did not get through. It was toward midnight, and a wild night it was--thunder, lightning, and torrents of rain. It was estimated that the current in the cut-off was making about fifteen or twenty miles an hour; twelve or thirteen was the best our boat could do, even in tolerably slack water, therefore perhaps we were foolish to try the cut-off. However, Mr. Brown was ambitious, and he kept on trying. The eddy running up the bank, under the 'point,' was about as swift as the current out in the middle; so we would go flying up the shore like a lightning express train, get on a big head of steam, and 'stand by for a surge' when we struck the current that was whirling by the point. But all our preparations were useless. The instant the current hit us it spun us around like a top, the water deluged the forecastle, and the boat careened so far over that one could hardly keep his feet. The next instant we were away down the river, clawing with might and main to keep out of the woods. We tried the experiment four times. I stood on the forecastle companion way to see. It was astonishing to observe how suddenly the boat would spin around and turn tail the moment she emerged from the eddy and the current struck her nose. The sounding concussion and the quivering would have been about the same if she had come full speed against a sand-bank. Under the lightning flashes one could see the plantation cabins and the goodly acres tumble into the river; and the crash they made was not a bad effort at thunder. Once, when we spun around, we only missed a house about twenty feet, that had a light burning in the window; and in the same instant that house went overboard. Nobody could stay on our forecastle; the water swept across it in a torrent every time we plunged athwart the current. At the end of our fourth effort we brought up in the woods two miles below the cut-off; all the country there was overflowed, of course. A day or two later the cut-off was three-quarters of a mile wide, and boats passed up through it without much difficulty, and so saved ten miles.

The old Raccourci cut-off reduced the river's length twenty-eight miles. There used to be a tradition connected with it. It was said that a boat came along there in the night and went around the enormous elbow the usual way, the pilots not knowing that the cut-off had been made. It was a grisly, hideous night, and all shapes were vague and distorted. The old bend had already begun to fill up, and the boat got to running away from mysterious reefs, and occasionally hitting one. The perplexed pilots fell to swearing, and finally uttered the entirely unnecessary wish that they might never get out of that place. As always happens in such cases, that particular prayer was answered, and the others neglected. So to this day that phantom steamer is still butting around in that deserted river, trying to find her way out.
More than one grave watchman has sworn to me that on drizzly, dismal nights, he has glanced fearfully down that forgotten river as he passed the head of the island, and seen the faint glow of the specter steamer's lights drifting through the distant gloom, and heard the muffled cough of her 'scape-pipes and the plaintive cry of her leadsmen.

39 posted on 08/31/2005 6:39:13 PM PDT by Cincinnatus
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To: LonePalm

I just downloaded Google Earth last week. It's Google maps on steroids. It even tell you the elevations. Take a look at the elevations of the rivers at the Old River Control Structure. It's at 31' 05, 91' 36.


40 posted on 08/31/2005 6:40:10 PM PDT by centexan (Go 1st Cav and 4th ID)
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