Posted on 08/22/2005 7:30:20 AM PDT by leadpenny
I've never seen Breaking News on C-SPAN before but they just flashed a comment on the bottom of the screen that an agreement has been reached on a constitution at 10:25 ET.
Shiites Say Parliament Poised to Get Draft
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050822/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq;_ylt=AigvzKDjyNQT.0dZJHqEqaKs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--
By SLOBODAN LEKIC, Associated Press Writer
3 minutes ago
A Shiite negotiator said Monday a draft constitution would be presented to Iraq's parliament, but a key Sunni Arab delegate said talk of a deal was premature and he doubted an agreement was possible by the midnight deadline.
The main obstacle appeared to be federalism, which the Sunni Arabs oppose.
One Shiite delegate said that the charter would be submitted to parliament Monday night even if the Sunnis don't accept it.
"After a while, the final draft that was agreed upon with the Kurdish bloc and other blocs will be brought here so that a meeting of the National Assembly can be held," Shiite negotiator Jawad al-Maliki told reporters five hours before the midnight deadline. "This draft will be offered and read and be voted on" before the deadline.
"Thank God we have finished all the details related to the agreement," al-Maliki said. "There is still one point left and the meeting now is about it: it is the Sunni Arab brothers and their stance toward federalism."
However, Sunni Arabs were still objecting to the agreement, especially provisions for transforming Iraq into a federal state.
One of the top Sunni Arab negotiators, Saleh al-Mutlaq, told Al-Arabiya television that he was "surprised by these statements" from the Shiites.
"There are still major points of disagreement," al-Mutlaq said. "I don't think we will reach a solution for them in the next few hours. We are holding talks with the Kurdish brothers and the brothers in the (Shiite) alliance and we haven't reached unanimity so far. The meetings are now taking place, and they claim that an agreement has been reached."
"We will urge all Iraqis to reject the constitution if it is presented as it is being presented now," he said.
Jalaaldin al-Saghir, a Shiite negotiator, said the constitution "has a time limit that we do not want to breach."
"We had talks with our Sunni brothers at the end some of the Arab Sunnis reached several conclusions," he said. "We cannot wait for all the time needed by those people to be convinced. We agree that the constitution, including federalism, be put before the people. If the Arab Sunnis do not want to vote in favor of federalism, then they can reject the constitution."
Shiites and Kurds have enough seats in parliament to win approval for a draft without the Sunni Arabs. But the Sunni minority could scuttle the constitution when voters decide whether to ratify it in the Oct. 15 referendum. Under current rules, the constitution would be defeated if it is opposed by two-thirds of the voters in three of Iraq's 18 provinces. Sunni Arabs form the majority in at least four.
In addition, an attempt by Shiites and Kurds to win parliamentary agreement without the Sunnis could risk a backlash within the community that is at the forefront of the insurgency and undercut U.S. hopes to begin withdrawing troops next year.
Al-Mutlaq said the Sunnis wanted more time to reach an agreement.
If the Shiites and Kurds approve a constitution without approval of the Sunni Arabs, he said it would "complicate the already complicated situation" in Iraq and "will increase everything which is increasing now in a bad situation."
"It will put us far from reconciliation and without reconciliation in this country we cannot advance," al-Mutlaq said. "The constitution they are writing now does not lead to reconciliation."
Al-Maliki said some of the Sunnis were willing to accept federalism but with conditions that it be approved by two-thirds of the 18 provincial councils, plus two-thirds of the provinces in a referendum and a two-thirds vote in the new parliament due to be elected in December.
He said the Kurds and the Shiites had agreed to distribute Iraq's oil and other natural wealth "according to the needs" of the central government and the provinces.
The status of the city of Kirkuk, which the Kurds want, would be determined by the end of 2007, he said.
Al-Saghir said the blocs agreed that no laws would be adopted that contradict the principles of Islam. "In addition, no law shall be adopted that contradicts human rights and democratic principles," he said.
"Also it was stated that the constitution ensures the Islamic identity of the majority of Iraqi people," he added. "As for dual citizenship, any Iraqi can keep two citizenships, but there is a ban on people who are in sovereignty posts," meaning the president and prime minister.
"It is stated that Iraq is part of the Islamic world and the Arab people in Iraq (are) part of the Arab nation," he added.
An initial Aug. 15 deadline was pushed back a week after no agreement was reached. Iraqi officials have insisted they would meet this second deadline and present a final document to the National Assembly.
Negotiators for the Shiites, Kurds and Sunnis met in Baghdad's fortified Green Zone for the talks.
Parliament will either receive the draft of the new charter or vote on setting a new deadline. If it doesn't agree on either, the legislature will have to dissolve.
Earlier, a Kurdish member of the drafting committee, Abdul-Khaleq Zangana, had said there were problems with "the role of religion and women's rights." He would not elaborate but predicted "either an extension — and this is not good — or parliament dissolves — and this is difficult."
Also before the end of the morning session, Shiite lawmaker Bahaa al-Araji accused the Kurds and secular allies of former Prime Minister Ayad Allawi of trying to "curb the political process" to bring down the government and force new elections.
"If an agreement is not reached, we will hand a draft and win slight majority in a vote and this is our right," al-Araji said.
Sunni Arab negotiators had complained of being sidelined in the final week of talks and that Shiites and Kurds were cutting deals excluding them.
On Sunday, Sunni representatives on the drafting committee appealed to the United States and United Nations to prevent Shiites and Kurds from pushing a draft through parliament without their consent, warning it would only worsen the crisis in Iraq.
This new constitution will not create an Islamic state nor a theocracy as in Iran or Saudi Arabia. Islam will be a main source of civil laws as in the case of every muslim country in the world including Turkey, the most secular of them all. As in our case our Judeo-Chrisitan religion has influenced a lot of the thinking in writing the laws of the nation, Islam will play this role in Iraq. It will have an effect mostly on divorce, marriage and other civil cases. There will be no mullahs that will rule Iraq and women will still have the rights to vote and be elected or appointed to many government offices.
MSNBC covering the Prez's VFW speech. Having a problem with the pool feed.
Aren't the sunnies the BIG problem here?
Reuters has such a PC problem with the word "islamists" but when it comes to attacking progress in Iraq they do not hesitate to use the word
"Iraq's ruling Shi'ite Islamists"
That's kinda funny, actually. Strikes me as being somewhat true to life for ambassadors.
Does anyone here have an idea of what "federalism" means to the Iraqis? The word is being thrown a whole lot in these articles, but for Iraqis it could well mean something quite different from what FReepers and Americans believe it means.
You seem pretty knowledgable about this - can you answer my question in post#69 about "federalism"?
The Sunni Arabs do not want a federal government not because of they fear a breakdown of Iraq which will not occur but because they are not in total and absolute power and they used to do since WW II. A large portion of the Sunni Arabs in Iraq are very nasty and brutal and they cannot stand losing power also they are a small minority. Many of them consider Shiite and Kurds as second class citizens who are way inferior to them and must not share power or money with them. I do not have any sympathy to them, and as I said before they must be shown on one way or another that their old days of brutal dictatorship and the rule of minority is long gone.
Thanks for attempting to answer my question. I knew it was bound to be quite difficult to answer. I think I understand a bit better now, but not perfectly.
Yesterday in the afternoon I picked up some clothes to get them to the laundry; by the way, in Iraq we do most of our laundry at home except for suits, jackets or clothes that have a stubborn spot of oil or juice or…whatever! That's not what I should be talking about right now. So, the place I was going to to do the laundry is very close to a mosque (a Sunni mosque to be more specific), now once I parked the car and made the first two steps to my destination I was attacked by a kid holding a parcel of flyers in one hand and handing out flyers to pedestrians and people in cars with the other hand. The parcel was heavy for him that he barely kept balance while moving and it looked funny.
"Uncle, here, take these, read them and then go register your name in the office" said the kid while he snatched a couple of flyers from the parcel (which you can see in the image below) and handed them over to me. The word "uncle" or "aunt" is used so often when talking to anyone relatively older in age…well, again that's not our topic today!
That kid was not alone there; there were other kids doing the same, all wearing the same kind of screen printed t-shirts and caps carrying the name and sign of the Islamic Party.
Those flyers are different from the ones that were distributed prior to the January elections by this party and other Sunni entities; this time they're encouraging their fellow Sunnis to take part in the referendum and the next elections describing the people's commitment to the constitutional process as a "must do" social and patriotic duty and describing the party's campaign to encourage joining the process as a "must do" religious duty.
It's interesting that this time they were digging for proofs in the Quran and Hadith (sayings of the prophet) to support and justify their calls for taking part in the referendum and elections. They even chose a Hadith where the prophet is supposed to have legalized having a social contract with "nonbelievers" if that contract is going to serve the interests of the community and that's in my opinion is a huge change.
It seems that everyone is getting ready to say their word the on constitution and all that is missing now is, er...the constitution!
BAGHDAD, Aug 22 (Reuters) - Iraq's parliament received a draft of the country's constitution less than five minutes before a midnight deadline on Monday, but there was no vote on the highly contested document.
Parliamentary speaker Hajim al-Hassani told members a text of the document had been received but said the final wording would have to be worked out within the coming three days.
The draft of the constitution was due to be presented by Aug. 15, but a week ago parliament voted to extend the deadline by one week. The speaker said he expected remaining differences to be ironed out in the coming days.
This takes me back to my college term paper days.
ABC news at the bottom of the hour say it'll be based on Islamic Law.
Iraqi Women, get your chattle gear out of the closet.
Roger.
I finished my homework.
No, you can't see it.
Really should make it a "White Night" cocktail!/ Sarcasm
The problem is that under the system that's set up, they have the votes to scuttle the proposed Constitution when it comes up for referendum. That'd start the whole election process over again....
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