Posted on 08/20/2005 4:36:55 AM PDT by ex-Texan
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - In a challenge to Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas, dozens of masked Hamas gunmen took over Gaza City's central square on Saturday and announced they would not stop attacks on Israel, despite Israel's ongoing withdrawal from the Gaza Strip.
The show of force by Hamas came just as Abbas announced Jan. 25 as the date for legislative election, a move that could boost his international credibility and encourage Hamas to hold its fire during the pullout.
Abbas, who is under intense international pressure to disarm militant groups, has been urging them not to flaunt their weapons in public. However, even the Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, a group with ties to Abbas' ruling Fatah movement, has largely ignored his appeal.
On Saturday, several dozen Hamas gunmen took over Gaza's central square and closed all entrances to it. Police cruisers approached but did not interfere as the gunmen announced they would not lay down their arms.
"This retreat does not mean the end of our battle, but it is the beginning," said a spokesman for the Hamas military wing, who identified himself only by his nom-de-geurre, Abu Obaideh.
"Our battle with the (Israeli) enemy is long and will continue," Abu Obaideh said, addressing a group of some 40 armed and masked Hamas members who had gathered in a square outside the Palestinian Parliament building.
Israel is in the midst of evacuating 21 Gaza Strip settlements and four in the West Bank. Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said the move is necessary to boost Israel's security.
But Palestinians have tried to portray the move as a victory for them.
On Friday Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas said Israel was quitting Gaza because of Palestinian "sacrifices" and "patience," and he promised the withdrawal would lead to further pullouts from the West Bank and Jerusalem.
Hamas, which has carried out dozens of attacks and suicide bombings against Israeli targets during the more than four years of violence, said it would continue the armed struggle until these goals are achieved.
The Palestinians claim all of Gaza, the West Bank and east Jerusalem for a future state.
Hamas had agreed to halt attacks against Israelis in the run up to the withdrawal. Israeli and Palestinian violence has also dropped since a February cease fire was declared.
Yes, this regurgitating of history -- gets old.
Divide the populations. Determine if the new Pali state is a terrorist state or a democratic state with terrorists. Remove all terrorists and governments that support terrorists. Spare no method or procedure in doing so.
Enough.
Unless you've changed, I believe your has been for some time for Israel to retreat behind defensible walls and cut itself from the savages (my word if not yours).
I no longer have a solution. Facts have changed. I believe events can now spill in all sorts of directions, none of them good for anyone. Maybe at the end of the upcoming upheaval, in many years, there will be some light.
I hope you're right. Perhaps it might work as long as Israel now deals with the Palestinians on a one eye for two, one tooth for three basis.
And then there is Iran with nuclear weapons.
Your characterization of my plan is about right, except that the Palestinian areas under the Torie plan would be encircled by Isreali force of arms, Israel would control what goes in, and goes out of the Palestinian area, and that condition would continue to obtain until the Palestinian area becomes a civil rather than lawless society, with a government with a capacity to enforce its laws, and does so. Israel cannot allow the Palestinian area to just become a staging area nest of terrorist freaks collected from across the Jihadist globe, armed by terrorist states, e.g. Iran. Iran's nuclear program also needs to be shut down by force of arms by the way.
The problem with your solution is that the exact opposite is going to happen. The World and US insists on Gazan autonomy and free accesses to the World and the "West Bank".
Israel has already agreed to hand over the Gazan Egyptian crossing to the Egyptians. I know you are too sophisticated to believe they will control the flow of arms and terrorists. In addition there will be an airport and seaport.
If after what Israel has done unilaterally I admit I have no solution, yours is now wishful thinking mixed with fantasy. And what you hope not to occur, is very likely to occur.
access
"(And please don't bother. It'd be just bull$hit anyways about protecting civilian settlements -- or do you still insist on calling them "outposts" -- that shouldn't have been built there to begin with.)"
They're communities.
How do you feel about the illegal Arab occupation of the temple Solomon built?
Or of the graves of our patriarchs, which have the oldest property deed known to man?
In comparison... How do you respond when Israel tears down illegal Arab "settlements" built on public land in Jerusalem, without title or permit?
Yes, the above is not consistent with the Torie plan. I only have the capacity to propose a plan, not effect its adoption, obviously.
One hopes that if Egypt does not do the job, Israel has the diplomatic capacity to bounce them, but that would seem unlikely. The seaport and airport are also not consistent with the Torie plan. Maybe the idea is to let Gaza become a terrorist nest (obviously that is what will happen), and then after some nasty incidents, and the requisite Israeeli body count number has been reached, to then effect the Torie plan.
PA vs Hamas. Should be interesting to watch whether the Palestinians can get their stuff together or will they disintegrate into civil war.
" Plus, unlike in Germany, Japan, Italy, North Korea, the victor is allowed to take land from the vanquished and build homes!"
Germany lost the Alsace-Lorraine in WWI, and never regained it. Even after WWII.
North Korea was created by civil war. They once occupied and then lose Seoul, for example. It's not really a relevent example.
Japan is a series of islands. Who would they lose their islands to?
How about a different example.
Mexico lost land to the US. Should we give back Arizona, NM, California, Colorado, Texas? Or do you call it Tejas and Aztlan?
Jews lived in many of the places which are "Arab" areas now. Many of the places you call "settlements" are where there's been contiguous Jewish presence just about forever, and where Muslims are the relative newcomers.
You're probably opposed to Jewish presence in Hevron, even though it's where Machpelah is and where Jewish kings reigned.
How much noise have you made, hypocrite, about the Arab towns built over Jewish centers in Arab countries, where the Jews were expelled from?
(crickets)
In other words, perpetual war. If Israel wins again, back to square one.
Frankly, I believe that is the World's plan. Until Israel finally succumbs.
Yep! Going to kick some @@@@. BOOOOOOOOM!!!!
Blah, blah blah. Good cop, bad cop. As if there is any difference between Abbas and Hamas.
And now we will hear this from the world, that the so-called palestinians really want peace, it's just the bad ones getting in the way. And the world opinion will still be the same.
Israel will be viewed as the villian if She retaliates against terrorists in Gaza.
Yeah, me too... /sarcasm
Sadly, I agree. He's doing alot of posturing right now.
Well not square one. The populations would be separated along more defensible lines, with one surrounded. That is a different square from the current one.
They eat, drink and sleep Jew (and American) envy.
"Blah blah blah. I'm referring to UN 181. But you knew that."
That's a GENERAL ASSEMBLY resolution, not a Security Council resolution.
General Assembly resolutions are non-binding. Only Security Council resolutions are.
But then, I'm sure you knew that.
You cited the resolution that called for Jerusalem, the eternal capital of the Children of Israel, to be turned over to "international authority."
Like I said, your words have told me all I need to know about you.
Get youself familiar with the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo.
"are where there's been contiguous Jewish presence just about forever"
Here we go again. Some Jewish traveller once pitched a tent on this spot 6,000 years ago ...
Not really.
First Jews and Arabs are intertwined even in Israel proper where Arab militancy grows.
From a defense point of view, Arabs will fire on Israel from any territory they control. You and I both know that the prevalent carpet bombing fantasy on FR is just that, a fantasy.
The only solution for Israel will be a physical presence to prevent the attacks. Then the troops again become the target. Full circle.
You and I know that the problem and the solution is and has always been with the Arabs. But the World blames Israel. So why should the Arabs change? They won't and there will be no solution.
Today they feel more emboldened then in the past 60 years.
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