Harvard creates new group to investigate 'origin of life' (Limbaugh heckled scientists today...)

Houston Chronicle ^ | 13 August 05 | Gareth Cook

[gobucks]

Project begins amid arguing over teaching evolution. Harvard University is launching a broad initiative to discover how life began, joining an ambitious scientific assault on age-old questions that are central to the debate over the theory of evolution.

The Harvard project, which is likely to start with about $1 million annually from the university, will bring together scientists from fields as disparate as astronomy and biology, to understand how life emerged from the chemical soup of early Earth, and how this might have happened on distant planets.

Known as the "Origins of Life in the Universe Initiative," the project is still in its early stages, and fundraising has not begun, the scientists said.

But the university has promised the researchers several years of seed money and has asked the team to make much grander plans, including new faculty and a collection of multimillion-dollar facilities.

The initiative begins amid increasing controversy over the teaching of evolution, prompted by proponents of "intelligent design," who argue that even the most modest cell is too complex, too finely tuned, to have come about without unseen intelligence.

President Bush recently said intelligent design should be discussed in schools, along with evolution. Like intelligent design, the Harvard project begins with awe at the nature of life, and with an admission that, almost 150 years after Charles Darwin outlined his theory of evolution in the Origin of Species, scientists cannot explain how the process began.

Now, encouraged by a confluence of scientific advances — such as the discovery of water on Mars and an increased understanding of the chemistry of early Earth — the Harvard scientists hope to help change that.

"We start with a mutual acknowledgment of the profound complexity of living systems," said David R. Liu, a professor of chemistry and chemical biology at Harvard. But "my expectation is that we will be able to reduce this to a very simple series of logical events that could have taken place with no divine intervention."

The theory of evolution has been both fascinating and religiously charged since its very beginnings, because it speaks directly to the place of people in the natural order. In another era, the idea that humans are the close cousins of apes was seen as preposterous.

Today's research of origins focuses on questions that seem as strange as the study of "ape men" once did: How can life arise from nonlife? How easy is it for this to happen? And does the universe teem with life, or is Earth a solitary island?

At Harvard, the origins of life initiative is part of a dramatic rethinking of how to conduct scientific research.

Many of science's most interesting questions are emerging in the boundaries between traditional disciplines such as physics, chemistry, and biology, yet universities are largely organized by those disciplines. Harvard's president, Lawrence Summers, is a proponent of the view that universities must develop new structures to encourage interdisciplinary science. And new science laboratories based on this are at the center of the plans for a sprawling new campus.

The Harvard origins initiative is on a short list of projects being considered for this campus, along with the widely discussed Harvard Stem Cell Institute, which aspires to bring together biologists, chemists, doctors, and others.

[Petrosius]

So, do you want to stipulate that the blue-green Algae were specially created by some process to be described by you, and that life evolved henceforward according to physical law?

I would have no problem with the idea that after the initial creation of life by God its evolution (except for the creation of the human soul which is of a different order than that of animals) may have proceeded according to physical laws. As of yet, however, science has not shown how this to be so.

Personally I am inclined to follow Behe that at the molecular level life is irreducibly complex and thus would not allow for a naturalistic evolution. Note that this is a scientific conclusion not one based on faith. I am open to the idea that further scientific study might show a way around this problem but for now I think it unlikely.

[Petrosius]

Either you test and research, or you sit on your ass navel gazing.

Ah, but naturalistic evolution itself is untestable. While it hiding under the cloak of science, it is but mere speculation. So how does your navel look? ;-)

The fault with the a purely naturalistic approach is the illogical insistence that natural science is the only form of true knowledge. Revelation is also a source of knowledge, nor does it conflict with the claims of real science.

[BipolarBob]

They have admittedly started on a circular path. To attempt to discover the orgin of life without God's intervention. I would rather spend my time reading the Bible than doing biased research to undermine God. Someday, in the next life, it will all be clear who chose what side, but it will be too late for a correction.

[Petrosius]

And how is basing anything on Divine intervention science? How do you test for such?

The statement should read: And how is basing anything on Divine intervention natural science? This it is not, but natural science is not the only type of knowledge that man is capable of.

How do you test for such?

Nor can you test for a naturalistic evolution. This is the problem that many have with it. Naturalistic evolution is no more science than the belief in Divine intervention.

[Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit]

"How's that for science? The project hasn't begun and a "scientist" associated with the project has already developed a premise based on non-science. "

In 13th century news, an outbreak of plague as well as collora was deemed to be God's wrath. Discussion over proper action to be taken was unclear given a lack of consensus on whether it was a result of allowing Jews or perhaps witches to remain in the city.

The reason for the outbreak had not been determined and already they were assuming it was "God's wrath".

[Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit]

My guess is that Rush is playing the entertainment card on this one. I don't think Rush really has a dog in this race, so he could probably care less and assumes it makes for better radio to keep this controversy alive. If Rush we in agreement with Evos, the issue really might die - which is bad for a 4 hour radio program in the slow summer months.

Unfortunately, I fear or he is playing into liberal hands to set up a huge defeat for conservatives on this one.

[Right Wing Professor]

Limbaugh should be more respectful to the people who created oxycontin. There's no gratitude in the world.

And if the Discovery Inst. hadn't been doing the work it has been doing, does anyone seriously believe that Harvard would spend money on this?

I strongly suspect that the initiators of this project have never even heard of the Discovery institute. One of the kewl things of being at Harvard is that you can, by and large, ignore the maudlin speculations of washed-up Lehigh biochemists and kook pseudomathematicians who couldn't make tenure at Baylor. Harvard just knows there's rumblings out there among the great unwashed, and so wants to throw a tiny amount of money at the problem.

RWP, Graduate School of Arts and Sciences '84.

[Elsie]

Harvard University is launching a broad....

Arrgh!!!

Helen Thomas thoughts so early in the morning!!

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Ismh,

I only would tweak one thing you posted...

I don't believe in the absence of evidence. I believe the evidence I see - and that convinces me there is a Creator, that He has walked the earth, and that we are accountable to Him.

Those "scientists" who believe in the absence of evidence are to be pitied. Theirs is truly a faith. Not a leap of faith to something, but away from something - that which they find so abhorrent - a God who they are accountable to...

[Petrosius]

Ah, peer review. Any articles that suggests other than natural causes are automatically rejected because this would be "unscientific." Then claim that these ideas are not scientific because they have not been published in peer review journals. Can you say "circular reasoning?"

[RogueIsland]

a supernatural cause for the origin of life the may not be superfluous but necessary.

A demonic cause for the origin of gravity may not be superfluous but necessary. Gimme a million dollars to research how Great Cthulhu causes gravity.

[Just mythoughts]

LOL, not sure I would give them status of "reasoning", simply circular.


The FEAR coming from these evolutionists is about MONEY, funding, via their sacred cow public education.

Interesting to read evolutionists claiming to be conservative in a paralyzing FEAR that "believers" in God will end conservatism.

[Elsie]

Compare the two and you are comparing Creationism and Science.

---

NIV Deuteronomy 4:32
  Ask now about the former days, long before your time, from the day God created man on the earth; ask from one end of the heavens to the other. Has anything so great as this ever happened, or has anything like it ever been heard of?

 

NIV Psalms 89:47
  Remember how fleeting is my life. For what futility you have created all men!

 

NIV Psalms 104:30
  When you send your Spirit, they are created, and you renew the face of the earth.

 

NIV Psalms 139:13
  For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb.

 

NIV Psalms 148:4-5
 4.  Praise him, you highest heavens and you waters above the skies.
 5.  Let them praise the name of the LORD, for he commanded and they were created.

 

NIV Isaiah 40:26
   Lift your eyes and look to the heavens: Who created all these? He who brings out the starry host one by one, and calls them each by name.

 

NIV Isaiah 41:19-20
 19.  I will put in the desert the cedar and the acacia, the myrtle and the olive. I will set pines in the wasteland, the fir and the cypress together,
 20.  so that people may see and know, may consider and understand, that the hand of the LORD has done this, that the Holy One of Israel has created it.

 

NIV Isaiah 42:5-6
 5.  This is what God the LORD says-- he who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and all that comes out of it, who gives breath to its people, and life to those who walk on it:
 6.  "I, the LORD, have called you in righteousness; I will take hold of your hand.

 

NIV Isaiah 43:1
  But now, this is what the LORD says-- he who created you, O Jacob, he who formed you, O Israel: "Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have summoned you by name; you are mine.

 

NIV Isaiah 43:6-7
 6.  I will say to the north, `Give them up!' and to the south, `Do not hold them back.' Bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the ends of the earth--
 7.  everyone who is called by my name, whom I created for my glory, whom I formed and made."

 

NIV Isaiah 45:7-8
 7.  I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and  create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.
 8.  "You heavens above, rain down righteousness; let the clouds shower it down. Let the earth open wide, let salvation spring up, let righteousness grow with it; I, the LORD, have created it.

 

NIV Isaiah 45:12
  It is I who made the earth and created mankind upon it. My own hands stretched out the heavens; I marshaled their starry hosts.

 

NIV Isaiah 45:18
  For this is what the LORD says-- he who created the heavens, he is God; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited-- he says: "I am the LORD, and there is no other."

 

NIV Isaiah 54:16-17
 16.  "See, it is I who created the blacksmith who fans the coals into flame and forges a weapon fit for its work. And it is I who have created the destroyer to work havoc;
 17.  no weapon forged against you will prevail, and you will refute every tongue that accuses you. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and this is their vindication from me,"  declares the LORD.

 

NIV Isaiah 57:16
  I will not accuse forever, nor will I always be angry, for then the spirit of man would grow faint before me-- the breath of man that I have created.

 

NIV Isaiah 65:17-18
 17.  "Behold, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.
 18.  But be glad and rejoice forever in what I will create, for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight and its people a joy.

 

NIV Ezekiel 28:13-15
 13.  You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone adorned you: ruby, topaz and emerald, chrysolite, onyx and jasper, sapphire,  turquoise and beryl. Your settings and mountings  were made of gold; on the day you were created they were prepared.
 14.  You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones.
 15.  You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you.

 

NIV Malachi 2:10
  Have we not all one Father ? Did not one God create us? Why do we profane the covenant of our fathers by breaking faith with one another?

 

NIV Matthew 13:35
  So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophet: "I will open my mouth in parables, I will utter things hidden since the creation of the world."

 

NIV Matthew 25:34
  "Then the King will say to those on his right, `Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.

 

NIV Mark 10:6
   "But at the beginning of creation God `made them male and female.'   (Not umpteen eons later; after lots of Evolution takes place!)

 

NIV Mark 13:18-19
 18.  Pray that this will not take place in winter,
 19.  because those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning, when God created the world, until now--and never to be equaled again.

 

NIV Romans 1:20
  For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

 

NIV Romans 1:25
  They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.

 

NIV Romans 8:20-22
 20.  For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope
 21.  that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
 22.  We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.

 

NIV 1 Corinthians 11:8-9
 8.  For man did not come from woman, but woman from man;
 9.  neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.

 

NIV Ephesians 3:8-9
 8.  Although I am less than the least of all God's people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
 9.  and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.

 

NIV Colossians 1:16-17
 16.  For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
 17.  He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

 

NIV 1 Timothy 4:4-5
 4.  For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving,
 5.  because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

 

NIV Hebrews 4:13
  Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

 

NIV Hebrews 9:11
  When Christ came as high priest of the good things that are already here,  he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not man-made, that is to say, not a part of this creation.

 

NIV Hebrews 9:26
  Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world.

 

NIV Hebrews 12:26-29
 26.  At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, "Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens."
 27.  The words "once more" indicate the removing of what can be shaken--that is, created things--so that what cannot be shaken may remain.
 28.  Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe,
 29.  for our "God is a consuming fire."

 

NIV 2 Peter 3:4
   They will say, "Where is this `coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation."

 

NIV Revelation 4:11
  "You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being."

 

NIV Revelation 10:6
  And he swore by him who lives for ever and ever, who created the heavens and all that is in them, the earth and all that is in it, and the sea and all that is in it, and said, "There will be no more delay!

 

NIV Revelation 13:8
  All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast--all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world.

 

NIV Revelation 17:8
  The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.

---

E=MC²

[Elsie]

Can you say "circular reasoning?"

More like "circular effects"

[GladesGuru]

Dear GOBucks,

Your posted article is most interesting, but your assumption that academia has "waved a white flag" is, I hope, the result of too many coffees this morning. If not, then it borders on the delusional.

A cursory glance of man's intellectual history shows a steadily decreasing reliance of "the Gods" or "God" as an explanation for the physical universe.

As an example, once people prayed to fertility gods. Now those having trouble conceiving go to specialists and are able to obtain physical help to solve a physical problem.

Religion is about man's relationship to God. It is not about how to explain the physical universe.

Science can, and has, provided explanations for how the universe works. Religion, and philosophy, must try to show us what we should do with our lives and with the ever expanding powers which science is providing.

[<1/1,000,000th%]

Now, the REAL million dollar question: what took Harvard so long to get to this point?

Because this will probably take money away from basic research that will result in saving lives. Maybe some good will come of it, anyway. The Lord works in mysterious ways.

[orionblamblam]

And you can download the text to the Eddas for *free*.

Hail Odin!

[Junior]

Nor can you test for a naturalistic evolution.

Bull puckey you can't. What do you think the genome projects are all about? They solidified the evolutionary relationships first determined through morphology.

And, as for your "science != natural science" crapola, science follows the scientific method. Praying for Divine revelation , regardless of whether or not it actually imparts knowledge, is not science, natural or not.

[Junior]

Ah, but naturalistic evolution itself is untestable.

Bull Puckey. See my other post to you on why. Try to learn something about the subject before spouting off next time.

[longshadow]

Rush is a science department, Rush needs no "peer review".

I'll grant Rush this much; he doesn't run around claiming to have a bogus degree from some place like Patriot University. I just wish his science talent was half as good as his ability to gleen political insights.