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States brief ~ ACLU sues North Carolina for barring oaths on non-Christian religious texts
Jurist (Univ. of Pittsburgh School of Law Paper) ^ | July 26, 2005

Posted on 07/27/2005 5:40:50 AM PDT by Halfmanhalfamazing

[JURIST] Leading Tuesday's states brief, the ACLU filed a lawsuit [ACLU news] today against North Carolina asking the court to rule that a "holy scripture" suitable for oath administration includes the religious texts of Islam, Judaism, Hinduism and other non-Christian faiths as well as the Christian Bible. Last month, two state judges in Guilford County ruled that an oath on the Koran was not a legal oath under a state law which allows a witness to take their oaths either by laying a hand over a "holy scripture" or by saying "so help me God" without a religious book. The ACLU of North Carolina [website] alleges that denying the use of religious texts other than the Christian Bible violates the US Constitution by favoring Christianity. AP has more.

(Excerpt) Read more at jurist.law.pitt.edu ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; US: North Carolina
KEYWORDS: aclu; communists; constitution; enemywithin; koran; qoran; quran
Are Liberals forgetting history? Or purposely rewriting it?

Anybody here familiar with Justice John Jay? Somebody needs to tell a liberal.

Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.

Quote- "It is to be regretted, but so I believe the fact to be, that except the Bible there is not a true history in the world. Whatever may be the virtue, discernment, and industry of the writers, I am persuaded that truth and error (though in different degrees) will imperceptibly become and remain mixed and blended until they shall be separated forever by the great and last refining fire."

This is a christian nation. Therefore...... Bible. And I'm not even christian.

1 posted on 07/27/2005 5:40:52 AM PDT by Halfmanhalfamazing
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing

I think we left out people that need to be shot.


2 posted on 07/27/2005 5:44:05 AM PDT by AliVeritas (Ignorance is a condition. Stupidity is a strategy.)
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing

Unless I'm very mistaken, it has always been usual practice under common law for a person to take their oath on their own sacred book.

Christians, Bible. Muslims, Koran. Jews, Torah. Etc.

The purpose of taking the oath on a sacred book is that the book is sacred to the person taking the oath.

According to the US Constitution, oaths are not required at all, as the person can merely "affirm" their intention to tell the truth, a concession to the Quakers and certain other groups opposed to the swearing of oaths.


3 posted on 07/27/2005 5:48:27 AM PDT by Restorer (Liberalism: the auto-immune disease of societies.)
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing
It bears repeating over and over again...the ACLU's goal here (or ever) is not to defend freedom of religion or the Constitution...in the words of its founder Roger Baldwin:

I am for socialism, disarmament, and ultimately, for abolishing the state itself... I seek social ownership of property, the abolition of the properties class, and sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal. I don't regret being part of the communist tactic. I knew what I was doing. I was not an innocent liberal. I wanted what the communists wanted, and I traveled the United Front road to get it.

As history has shown us...the first thing every Communist society does is attempt to destroy the religious institutions

4 posted on 07/27/2005 5:52:46 AM PDT by Irontank (Let them revere nothing but religion, morality and liberty -- John Adams)
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing
Since the koran contains provisions permitting lying to "infidels," an oath to tell the truth based thereon would be subject to challenge. I wonder if the aclu has thought this through. The book itself belies adherence to truth.
5 posted on 07/27/2005 5:53:03 AM PDT by laishly
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To: Jay777

ACLU ping


6 posted on 07/27/2005 5:53:15 AM PDT by EdReform (Free Republic - helping to keep our country a free republic. Thank you for your financial support!)
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To: EdReform

Wouldn't it be nice if the Islamic fundamentalists set their sights on the ACLU?


7 posted on 07/27/2005 5:55:13 AM PDT by ReadyNow
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To: Restorer

Now that the ACLU has gotten religion out of the Government - isn't it about time to start working on getting government out of religion.

I am talking about people giving money to a church then writing it off of their taxes.

This results in other tax payers being forced to support that religion.

If you want to give to your favorite - fine - just don't expect the rest of us to support it.

It's time to stop this scam right now.


8 posted on 07/27/2005 6:00:27 AM PDT by MudSlide
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To: Restorer
The purpose of taking an oath on a "sacred book" is that it is thought to bind the oath-taker to truthfulness. The Koran has specific injunction to its adherents to lie to unbelievers thus the legal purpose of the book oath is defeated.
9 posted on 07/27/2005 6:00:46 AM PDT by Paine in the Neck
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing
...the ACLU filed a lawsuit [ACLU news] today against North Carolina asking the court to rule that a "holy scripture" suitable for oath administration includes the religious texts of Islam,

If the point of the ACLU suit is to use various religious texts for swearing a judicial oath then the Koran cannot be used under any circumstances.

The Koran contains passages that permit lying and deceit by muslims against non-muslims. Anyone swearing an oath upon the Koran cannot be trusted to tell the truth since the book itself nullifies the oath.

10 posted on 07/27/2005 6:11:20 AM PDT by Noachian (To Control the Judiciary The People Must First Control The Senate)
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To: Irontank

Yep, I know. And it's sad.


11 posted on 07/27/2005 6:11:24 AM PDT by Halfmanhalfamazing (You upgraded to Linux? No, I'm not surprised your computer works properly now. Amazing, no?)
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To: ReadyNow

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. It'll never happen.

Both the ACLU and the Islamo facists have their sights on US traditions and freedoms.


12 posted on 07/27/2005 6:12:47 AM PDT by Halfmanhalfamazing (You upgraded to Linux? No, I'm not surprised your computer works properly now. Amazing, no?)
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing
Here we go again ... the ACLU continues to try to destroy the fabric of America. The fact is that there is nothing in the U.S. constitution which would prevent the state of North Carolina, or any state, from establishing an official state religion if they so desired. The administering of oaths is the business of the separate states, not the federal government. Furthermore, as another post pointed out, to swear on the Koran is to promise to lie to the infidels.
13 posted on 07/27/2005 6:18:11 AM PDT by layman (Card Carrying Infidel)
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing

Terrorist are pikers they merely seek to kill us. The ACLU means to destroy us morally. We need to declare war on the ACLU.


14 posted on 07/27/2005 6:33:14 AM PDT by sgtbono2002
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing
How reliable is a witness anyway...

Sworn to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth...

Only as good as their own heart...

The Bible was there to provide those who believe in the One true God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and HIS son Jesus Christ...and those who fear God

It is meaningless to any other..

The Koran allows for lying to infidels or to advance Jihad..
so of what use is it?

The communist manifesto...swear by that?

The Bagavadia or Inagoddavida or whatever?

ACLU ...get real...communist infidel traitors...
15 posted on 07/27/2005 6:36:25 AM PDT by joesnuffy (The state always has solutions to the problems it creates...more freedom will never be a solution)
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing; Mo1; Howlin; Peach; BeforeISleep; kimmie7; 4integrity; BigSkyFreeper; ...

Ping.....


16 posted on 07/27/2005 6:41:08 AM PDT by OXENinFLA
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To: layman

"The fact is that there is nothing in the U.S. constitution which would prevent the state of North Carolina, or any state, from establishing an official state religion if they so desired."

What you say is true up to ratification of the 14th Amendment. The Constitution's 1st Amendment religious protections have been applied to the states via the due process clause of 14A. This clause, plainly from it's text, exists to protect the citizens of all states from their respective state governments from depriving them of life, liberty or property without adequate and fair procedures - due process. Substantive Due Process, a legally theory the Supreme Court decided to use, reads 14A's due process clause as protecting against state interference most, but not all, of the rights in the Bill of Rights. Why most, but not all rights? Because our Supreme Court has decided to "selectively incorporate" rights. I believe all of 1A has been incorporated as applying to the state, but I don't think 2A has ever been considered or incorporated by the Supremes - not yet.


17 posted on 07/27/2005 7:45:36 AM PDT by KeyesPlease
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing

There was supposed to be a bill going through congress that would ban the ACLU rats from getting taxpayer money to pay for their legal expenses. Evidently, our cowardly republican majority let it fizzle.


18 posted on 07/27/2005 10:11:52 AM PDT by Mogollon
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To: Mogollon

We can't give up on the pubs.....(though I've never had faith in partisan politics) we especially can't give up on those who are conservative and stand up for our individual rights.

As I've said before, there's something evil in the air up in DC. We *NEED* to vote *MORE* conservatives in office in 2006. And again in 2008. We CAN do this. It's the only way we'll break this shell....... the cloud that hangs over washington that changes our representatives once they start going there.

We keep sending the message, and they'll eventually stand up for waht is right. But it's up to us to keep fighting otherwise we will lose our country and rights for some collectivism agenda.

Also..... I'd like to have more info on that bill if there's a freep discussion about it that you know of.(or another link) Thanks in advance.


19 posted on 07/27/2005 1:19:24 PM PDT by Halfmanhalfamazing (You upgraded to Linux? No, I'm not surprised your computer works properly now. Amazing, no?)
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