Posted on 07/16/2005 9:37:20 AM PDT by Checkers
An interesting post by Cliff May:
"This morning, I have a piece up elsewhere on NRO showing that The Nation’s David Corn--not syndicated columnist Bob Novak--was the first to reveal that Valerie Plame was an undercover operative. It further suggests that David did so based on information provided to him by none other than Joseph C. Wilson IV.
While working on that piece, I had an exchange with David and, with his permission, I thought I’d share that with you. Dear David:
I have a question--one you may not be willing to answer but I’m curious so let me try:
Novak’s column said that Plame was an “Agency operative.” Novak claims he didn’t know--and didn’t mean to imply--that she was a covert agent.
Your piece, a few days later, says quite explicitly that Plame was “a US intelligence officer working covertly in a field of vital importance to nationally security.”
How did you know that?
- Cliff David responded:
Come on, Cliff. I'm disappointed in you--especially as a former NY Times reporter. Here's what I wrote:
Did senior Bush officials blow the cover of a US intelligence officer working covertly in a field of vital importance to national security--and break the law--in order to strike at a Bush administration critic and intimidate others?
You will note that this is a question, not a statement of fact. David then quotes extensively from his piece, which I had already read several times and which you can find here.
I then sent him this message: Dear David,
You’re too loyal to acknowledge that Wilson was your source.
You’re also too honest to deny it.
Allbest,
Cliff David replied: You wrote:
You’re too loyal to acknowledge that Wilson was your source.
You’re also too honest to deny it.
All I can say again is, nice try. When I spoke to Joe Wilson after the Novak leak, he would not tell me whether or not his wife worked at the CIA. He spoke only in hypotheticals. He said, imagine if she did, what would this leak mean, AND imagine if she did not, what would this leak mean. So I do deny that he told me because he did not. That's the truth, the absolute truth. No spin. No parsing. No stonewalling. If you find any wiggle room in this response, let me know and I will unwiggle it. And you can believe it or not.
David
PS Mind if I write about our correspondence?
My final message to him: Dear David,
You’re a good reporter. You know when a hypothetical is really a confirmation.
When Wilson told you: “So, hypothetically, here’s what it what it would mean if my wife were a top-secret agent--which I’m not saying she was; and here’s what it would mean if she had been on undercover on dangerous missions tracking WMD purchases abroad--which, of course, I’m not saying ever happened; and here’s what the consequence would be for her extensive network of sources if she were exposed, though I’m still not confirming anything…”--you knew exactly what he was telling you with a wink and a nudge.
Bob Novak did not know that Plame was or had ever been an undercover agent. His sources didn’t tell him that. He did not write that she was an undercover agent. If he had known she was a secret agent of any sort he says he would never have published her name.
Novak has maintained all that consistently. I’ve disagreed with Bob Novak on many issues and on many occasions. I’ve debated him publicly--on the war in Iraq, among other things, where he probably is more in agreement with Wilson than with me.
But one thing about Bob Novak: He’s been around this town about 50 years. He’s a patriot. He would not knowingly burn a spy. And he doesn’t lie. You don’t stay a major media figure for half a century if you’re a liar.
Let me say this clearly: Novak did not know and did not reveal that Plame had been an undercover operative.
You were the first to reveal that.
You did that hypothetically, of course. You were just asking a question, of course. You didn’t know whether she was or was not what you called “a top-secret operative”--but you thought it sure would be interesting if you raised that possibility.
And how much more interesting if you accused the Bush administration of purposely leaking that information as a way to punish Wilson--which has been Wilson’s allegation all along-- since he claimed (falsely it turns out) Cheney’s office sent him to Niger.
You and I know that he shared all this with you and more--hypothetically, of course.
You got this snowball rolling, David. And it produced the avalanche you and Wilson expected it would. I give you full credit for that.
You certainly may write about our correspondence.
I may do that, too.
Allbest,
Cliff"
Bump
http://moonbatcentral.com/wordpress/?p=707
Read this, and see what you think!
MARK LEVIN [Cliff May]
Mark made a good point on his ABC radio show tonight. If Joe Wilson was not the source for David Corn’s column, who was?
And if David had no source, then he was just making up stuff – such as the notion that Plame had been a “top-secret operative”.
But that would be irresponsible. And David would not be irresponsible.
Posted at 09:37 PM
CORN STRIKES BACK [Cliff May]
On his blog, David Corn attempts to rebut my NRO piece. I don’t think he gets very far but it’s here so you can judge for yourself.
His major argument is that Bob Novak reporting that Joe Wilson’s assignment for the CIA came about because Wilson’s wife, Valerie Plame, a CIA operative, recommended him, is no different from David Corn revealing that Valerie Pame was a “top-secret” CIA agent.
He adds: “Once Valerie Wilson's name appeared in Novak's column, her days as a CIA undercover official were done.”
But why would that be? If the day after Novak’s column came out, Valerie Plame, CIA analyst at CIA HQ in Langley, were to disappear, and Mallory Flame, arms dealer, were to arrive in Istanbul with a passport and contacts and a “legend,” how would anyone make the connection?
They could not, nor would anyone who had worked with Plame in the past know anything --assuming that when Plame had been under cover she had used false identities.
However, once Wilson told Corn – and Corn published -- that Plame was not just a CIA analyst but a secret agent with an extensive network of contacts, and once she and Joe posed for pictures in Vanity Fair, her career as an undercover spy was indeed over.
BTW, he also says I ignored his notes to me. In fact, I published them all, though not in the story but here in the Corner under the title “Reporters’ Notebooks.”
He also continues to deny that Wilson was his source. So how did he know things that Novak didn’t report? He doesn’t tell us, he just says things llike, “the story was that Valerie worked for an energy firm…”
The story? Whose story? Novak didn’t tell this story? Who did? What was the source?
Posted at 09:31 PM
RE PRESS BIAS AND PLAMEGATE [Cliff May]
Ramesh, it’s very odd that Jonathan Cohn thinks Judith Miller is attempting to “protect” Karl Rove. What’s the basis for that theory?
If Karl was her source, why is she staying in the slammer? He he’s said several times that he has waived any expectation of confidentiality by any reporter with whom he ever spoke.
So who is Judy in jail to protect? I don’t know. Could be a lot of people, couldn’t it?
Posted at 05:54 PM
RE DAVID CORN [Cliff May]
My friend David Corn is hopping mad and he’s calling me names and questioning my motives. I understand that. I feel his anger.
But he hasn’t actually challenged any of the facts or analysis in my piece.
Except one: He is arguing that providing the name of a CIA employee – or operative -- is the same as exposing the identity of a CIA covert agent.
Now that may play out in the boondocks among people who have never known anyone who worked at the CIA and who assume that everyone at CIA has a secret identity and works for a CIA front.
But anyone with any knowledge or experience knows that is it doesn’t work like that.
The facts are these: (1) Bob Novak did not say that Valerie Plame was a secret agent; (2) David Corn did; (3) we don’t know who Bob’s sources were; (4) we know David’s source was Joe Wilson.
The rest is commentary.
Posted at 05:53 PM
I think Corn and Wilson are buddy-buddy. That might account for the story coordination.
Thanks for the ping and link, Wolfstar :)
Please read the link I posted at post #82, and tell me what you think!!!
I think they're giving Plame too much credit.....I'd sooner think that she'd play a game of "Spy and Downstair Maid" with her husband in Africa and then have to use Corn and his obscure news outlet to try to cover it up; then actually PLAN on discrediting the nation.....
Really don't think WIlson wrote the report or if he did she supplied the material thinking that no one would ever read it. When they thought "W"/WH picked up on it then the spinning began and the lies just became bigger and more outlandish. Trying to keep the investigation away for their own actions and looking at others....Typical juvenile/dRat behavior.
Would truly like to see if Mrs. WIlson joined her husband in Africa.....But since she would have had the knowledge to travel underthecovers, I doubt if we'll ever know. Regardless no more undercover trips for the Wilsons.
I'll take the tin-foil off now......(but it's the only reason I can logically think fits their actions...They're hiding something!)
...You don’t stay a major media figure for half a century if you’re a liar."...
huh?
hmmmmmmmmm ;)
How long was Dan th Blather involved in the MSM?
gotta been in the sixties, but I'm not sure. Somebody here or FR can probably tell us the hour, day, month, and year, though! LOL
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1444560/posts?page=1
Interesting background information on Patrick Fitzgerald the "leakgate" (sic) prosecutor. Had heard part of it before, but it nice to see it all in one place.
Sounds like he is very informed of the terrorism aspect of this case...
I hope he follows the clues to how much the Wilsons actually had to do with the whole thing.
Thanks for posting that link!!! I hadn't read it!
It's more than mere story coordination. David Corn advanced the story into the ugly claim that the White House had "outed Plame" deliberately as revenge against her husband. Rubbish! But it's only now, years later, that reporters like Cliff May and others are starting to piece together the truth -- the outlines of which were out there for anyone to see when all this first started.
OH, yeah, you are right---they would be involved in corruption, but nowdays, it all is kinda rolled into one.
That Oil for Food Scandal is corruption at its "best", but it also helped feed the terrorists by providing cover for their activities and partners in France, Russia, and other countries that SHOULD have helped in the war in Iraq, but were too financially involved with Saddam's scheme.
You're welcome, Jonny. Thought you might be interested. It's quite a tangled web.
There was a great article a few months back about how the drugs, terrorists, smugglers, black market were all inter twined.
If Mr and Mrs. Wilson think they're going to pull anything over on Fitzgerald they may have another thought coming.....They're both hiding behind her CIA connection, which IMO won't do them a D bit of good......His book sales may help pay their legal bills. BTW have either/or testafied yet or are they targets?
Do wish some FReeper had a way to check the airlines and hotel reservations for the time Mr. Wilson was in Africa. Would really like to see who else was there at that time. Who he just happened to run into.....
Yeppers, me too!
It may not be obvious outside the Beltway (and the DC columnists are certainly not helping in this regard) but if you live in the DC suburbs of Northern Virginia or Maryland, it's very common knowledge who in the neighborhood works for DoD, the Secret Service, DEA, foreign consulates, the FBI, NSA.... and the CIA.
You may not know exactly what they do - and they are extremely unlikely to tell you - but the fact of employment by this or that agency is generally not a big deal.
A showboating blowhard like Joe Wilson is exactly the sort of egocentric nitwit who'd tout his wife's employment to everyone he ever met, including cabbies, waiters, doormen, trash collectors, and of course reporters.
It's predictable that the DUmmies and their reporter/columnist allies would use this general naivete about "DC as a company town" as a propaganda lever. Wilson and his fans are counting on the naivete of the American public.
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