If it wasn't Novak, Rovak or Kovak... it must have been Kojak.
Posted on 07/16/2005 9:37:20 AM PDT by Checkers
An interesting post by Cliff May:
"This morning, I have a piece up elsewhere on NRO showing that The Nation’s David Corn--not syndicated columnist Bob Novak--was the first to reveal that Valerie Plame was an undercover operative. It further suggests that David did so based on information provided to him by none other than Joseph C. Wilson IV.
While working on that piece, I had an exchange with David and, with his permission, I thought I’d share that with you. Dear David:
I have a question--one you may not be willing to answer but I’m curious so let me try:
Novak’s column said that Plame was an “Agency operative.” Novak claims he didn’t know--and didn’t mean to imply--that she was a covert agent.
Your piece, a few days later, says quite explicitly that Plame was “a US intelligence officer working covertly in a field of vital importance to nationally security.”
How did you know that?
- Cliff David responded:
Come on, Cliff. I'm disappointed in you--especially as a former NY Times reporter. Here's what I wrote:
Did senior Bush officials blow the cover of a US intelligence officer working covertly in a field of vital importance to national security--and break the law--in order to strike at a Bush administration critic and intimidate others?
You will note that this is a question, not a statement of fact. David then quotes extensively from his piece, which I had already read several times and which you can find here.
I then sent him this message: Dear David,
You’re too loyal to acknowledge that Wilson was your source.
You’re also too honest to deny it.
Allbest,
Cliff David replied: You wrote:
You’re too loyal to acknowledge that Wilson was your source.
You’re also too honest to deny it.
All I can say again is, nice try. When I spoke to Joe Wilson after the Novak leak, he would not tell me whether or not his wife worked at the CIA. He spoke only in hypotheticals. He said, imagine if she did, what would this leak mean, AND imagine if she did not, what would this leak mean. So I do deny that he told me because he did not. That's the truth, the absolute truth. No spin. No parsing. No stonewalling. If you find any wiggle room in this response, let me know and I will unwiggle it. And you can believe it or not.
David
PS Mind if I write about our correspondence?
My final message to him: Dear David,
You’re a good reporter. You know when a hypothetical is really a confirmation.
When Wilson told you: “So, hypothetically, here’s what it what it would mean if my wife were a top-secret agent--which I’m not saying she was; and here’s what it would mean if she had been on undercover on dangerous missions tracking WMD purchases abroad--which, of course, I’m not saying ever happened; and here’s what the consequence would be for her extensive network of sources if she were exposed, though I’m still not confirming anything…”--you knew exactly what he was telling you with a wink and a nudge.
Bob Novak did not know that Plame was or had ever been an undercover agent. His sources didn’t tell him that. He did not write that she was an undercover agent. If he had known she was a secret agent of any sort he says he would never have published her name.
Novak has maintained all that consistently. I’ve disagreed with Bob Novak on many issues and on many occasions. I’ve debated him publicly--on the war in Iraq, among other things, where he probably is more in agreement with Wilson than with me.
But one thing about Bob Novak: He’s been around this town about 50 years. He’s a patriot. He would not knowingly burn a spy. And he doesn’t lie. You don’t stay a major media figure for half a century if you’re a liar.
Let me say this clearly: Novak did not know and did not reveal that Plame had been an undercover operative.
You were the first to reveal that.
You did that hypothetically, of course. You were just asking a question, of course. You didn’t know whether she was or was not what you called “a top-secret operative”--but you thought it sure would be interesting if you raised that possibility.
And how much more interesting if you accused the Bush administration of purposely leaking that information as a way to punish Wilson--which has been Wilson’s allegation all along-- since he claimed (falsely it turns out) Cheney’s office sent him to Niger.
You and I know that he shared all this with you and more--hypothetically, of course.
You got this snowball rolling, David. And it produced the avalanche you and Wilson expected it would. I give you full credit for that.
You certainly may write about our correspondence.
I may do that, too.
Allbest,
Cliff"
"He's .... a slightly more masculine version of Elanor Clift."
Eleanor without the earrings ?
If it wasn't Novak, Rovak or Kovak... it must have been Kojak.
Well .. it's pretty strong. But then David doesn't try to sweeten the truth.
The information nobody seems to be connecting to this PLOT by Valerie - are the main people involved in the PLOT!
The Wilsons were great friends and fund raisers for THE CLINTONS. There were many CIA-Clinton leftovers who I'm confident would be willing to assist the Clintons in anything they might want to do against the Bush admin. I know that may sound like I need a tinfoil hat, but after reading Bill Sammon's book, "At Any Cost", I read about actions of the democrats in 2000 which shocked me. So the fact that a member of the CIA would have more allegiance to the Clintons would not be a surprise to me at all. Plus, there is other speculation that Valerie's boss okayed the trip - and he left the CIA right after the Wilson/Niger event erupted. I sure do believe he needs to be brought before the Grand Jury.
I don't suspect the Clintons because it's fun to bash them. I have more than one specific reason for suspecting them of being involved in this PLOT.
First of all, Mark Rich was involved with the Oil for Food program, which makes the Clinton's involvement very suspect.
Secondly, Clinton had been all over the place undermining the WOT and whining about Franch and Germany not being in agreement with our going into Iraq. Bill even made a special effort to visit all those nations that were AGAINST AMERICA GOING INTO IRAQ. We learned both France and Germany had lucrative contracts with Saddam .. and of course they didn't want the war. I wondered if Clinton was being paid by some of those countries to try to stop the war ....... stop the war ...... as in PLOT.
Thirdly, Clinton was overheard talking with Blair at a cocktail party in London. The gist of the conversation went something like this .. "if you don't stop supporting Bush in this war, you will lose your election". I thought that was an ODD THREAT for Clinton to make .. except when Wilson's Niger incident blew up - and it appeared to smear both BUSH AND BLAIR. Hmmmmm? I couldn't help but wonder if Clinton had known about the Wilson/Niger incident AHEAD OF TIME ..??
If David is correct and it was a PLOT - Bill and Hillary Clinton are right in the middle of it .. at the least .. or planned and executed it by using the Wilsons .. at the worst.
Aren't you sorry now you said "tell me what you think"..??? LOL!
Corn is such an *ss. How about a new term - Corn-ography. Don't let your children download it.
If Kojak released info early and wrongly, would that be premature Kojaculation?
Who loves ya, baby?
"If Kojak released info early and wrongly, would that be premature Kojaculation?"
Was Corn wearing a blue dress?
Yeah, I didn't realize it was David Corn until I read the stories by Cliff May - and if David was the instigator .. who did he get the inspiration from ..?? I agree that's the question - was Corn just making it up or was Wilson feeding him the story ..?? Since both of them are suspected liars .. who knows!
Both of them are in search of an upper lip. It went wherever their brains did.
Thanks for clearing that up, Checkers.
Could minor Ambassador Joe Wilson himself have been the source in blowing his own Wife's cover?
It is distinctly possible, (though it may be unlikely that Joe Wilson himself directly was NY Times Judith Miller's source), since Joe Wilson himself evidently routinely bragged openly to strangers about her CIA employment, prior to such "cover" being "blown" in the press.
Here's an example of Joe's apparently routine and open bragging about Valerie being a "CIA agent," which became known directly to me over a year ago:
He certainly bragged about it per a famous and highly reliable source's (named below) account of his own face-to-face encounter with Amb. Joe Wilson prior to Valerie Plame's "outing" as a CIA agent/employee.
Based upon a personal conversation (we were in a small group eating; it was NOT an "off the record") I had with eminent historian Victor Davis Hanson (we were at a luncheon table together during a trip to Europe), it appeared entirely possible that Joe Wilson himself was the (or one source, if not the original one) possible source in revealing his own wife's status as a CIA agent or employee.
Victor Davis Hanson (Wilson presumably knew Victor Davis Hanson wrote regularly for NRO (National Review Online), had done OpEds for the Wall street Journal, and other publications, and had his own Website with a widespread following) said he (VDH) & Joe Wilson were both in the same "Green Room" before a televised debate-discussion on Iraq, etc. and Joe first warned the TV make-up person not to get powder on his $14,000 Rolex watch, then he bragged to Victor about several things (possessions and trips to Aspen, etc.), like his expensive car (I think it was a Mercedes), and then bragged about his beautiful wife who, Joe Wilson said (braggingly) was a CIA operative.
I asked Victor Davis Hanson Why he didn't write up this account.(?) He replied that Joe Wilson would probably simply deny it, since only he (VDH) & Joe Wilson were in the Green Room together before the broadcast.
However, it is now easy to surmise that Joe Wilson is a crass, materialistic, self-promoting, vain, egotistical, bragaddocio-opportunist, so this account is perfectly consistent with Valerie Plame's TWO photo shoots in Vanity Fair. (Or was it Vogue? No, probably too crass for Vogue, n'est pas?)
BUMP
That's a great point - we already know everything about Wilson's 'report' is a fraud - he never should have been sent on this 'mission' and his report was bogus and he never should have pretended to the public (these past two years) that his conversations over "warm mint tea" could ever possibly prove or disprove* anything about Iraq seeking uranium from Niger. Now we need someone to find out whether Valerie had any further role in this boondoggle - i.e., did she go on the trip, did she have anything to do with his report, did she use him to further any sort of position she was taking within the CIA vis-a-vis WMDs????
Wilson's report only added some 2nd-hand support to the concerns about Iraq and Niger uranium, though he was too dense to realize it, because he did relay the information that "Baghdad Bob" himself had tried to initiate trade talks with Niger.... since Niger has exactly ONE export that could be of any potential interest to Saddam (besides uranium, the other options for Niger's potentially booming trade relations with Baghdad are "livestock, cowpeas, onions").
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ng.html
Careful, Joe will blame you for posting that picture.
prove or disprove*
Whoops, forgot to add this note for my asterisk:
*Why don't any of the media heavyweights (sarcasm) ever point out that the very idea of being able to conclusively disprove ANYTHING about interest in, never mind shipments of uranium ore by sipping "warm mint tea" with some current and former regime officials is preposterous on the face of it???!!! Even if every official swears until blue in the face and chokes on their mint tea denying that there has even been any Iraqi approach on the subject, that could never be definitive, far from it. Anyone who was the object of such an approach and the Niger government itself would have the strongest possible motives for denying it to the USA - there were sanctions in place against Iraq, and uranium was/is obviously a far more sensitive subject than chickpeas anyway. The report from Joe Wilson (which DID offer some indication Iraq was interested in Niger's uranium, despite Wilson's block-headed denials) and even more the op-ed he wrote for the NY Times (July 6, 2003) are absolutely obtuse in their assumption that anyone in Niger is automatically going to volunteer such info.
(Niger Official): "Oh, holy chickpeas, the great Joe Wilson is inquiring about possible Iraqi interest in our uranium, I'd better volunteer everything I know!"
Nobody is as impressed with them as they seem to be, are they?
Boris and Natasha fits them rather nicely, don't you think?
Since Mrs. WIlson's cover was blown years before and she was an expert in WMD it would have been more locigal for the agency to send her over to snoop around....OTOH A married couple on holiday would raise less suspicion...So the hubby goes (along)....Now what logical excuse can we have for sending him (at tax payers expense).....We'll have him appear to take the journey talk with a couple of people and write a report. She can go covert (They'll spend most of their time UNDERtheCOVERS anyway).....IT ALL MIND GAMES for the WIlson's. They think they're important...and.... They know how to manipulate the word "is".
Wonder who will play the part of Wilson? ;^)
Hey Rockey! Watch me pull a rabid outta my hat!
But that trick never works.
This time for sure!
Nothin' up ma sleeve...
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
