Natalee Holloway - Extended Thread 2

Link to Previous Thread ^ | 6/20/05 | freepers

[stlnative]

FR Natalee Holloway Threads...

Natalee's body found... (false report)
Posted on 06/11/2005 1:05:50 PM CDT by kcvl
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1420967/posts?q=1&&page=1#1

Natalee Holloway - Extended Thread 1
Posted on 06/16/2005 11:43:44 AM CDT by brigette
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1424188/posts?q=1&&page=1#1

Aruba Info...

Full Aruba Island Maps
http://www.arubavacationhouse.com/images/arubamap.gif (BEST MAP)
http://www.caribbean-on-line.com/islands/ar/images/aruba2002.gif (good map but blurry)
http://www.aruba-tours.com/art/arubaattmap1.gif

Oranjestad Aruba Street Map
http://www.caribline.com/islands/ar/images/oranjestad2002.gif

San Nicolas Street Map
http://www.caribline.com/islands/ar/images/sannicolas2002.gif

Hotel Location Maps in the California Lighthouse Area
http://www.arubaluxurycondos.com/images/arubamap1.gif
http://www.frommers.com/images/destinations/maps/jpg/176_resortareaaccomodations.jpg (NICE MAP)

Manchebo Beach Area Map
http://www.mapsworldwide.com/mwwlive/itm_img/3897075008sam.gif

Aruba Beach Location Maps
http://www.arubariba.com/ArubamapBeachMap1.jpg
http://www.arubatravelinfo.com/maps/arubabeachmap.jpg (nice detailed map)

Aruba Township Location Map
http://www.arubarealestate.com/aruba_map/

Aruba Diving Location Maps
http://www.visitaruba.com/attractions/sunandfun/diving_a.html

Aruba Beach/Site Seeing Pictures
http://www.visitaruba.com/attractions/sunandfun/beaches.html

Aruba/Natalee - Blogs/Boards/Forums
http://bb.visitaruba.com/
http://www.aruba.com/msgbrd/read.php?f=1&i=124287&t=124287&v=t
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/ (Blog) - POPULAR
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/ (Forum) - POPULAR
http://spaces.msn.com/members/amykappel/ (Blogger in Aruba)
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/ (Blog) - POPULAR

Aruba White/Yellow Pages
http://arubayp.com/

Suspect's Personal Pages or Picture Album Locations
http://www.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=14905439&Mytoken=20050613202923

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FR Quick Ping List (copy & paste) - active posters to the thread
(there is no real ping list - I really do not have one and I do not plan to make one)
Andy'smom;bonfire;brigette;kcvl;maggiefluffs;No Surrender No Retreat;Palladin;Rippersnapper;sarasota;TexKat;theophilusscribe

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Some case info to go along with this map...
(as far as I know this is all correct)

http://www.arubavacationhouse.com/images/arubamap.gif

The Island is 6 to 7 miles deep by about 20 miles long

B-1 = California Lighthouse - where the boys claim they took her first after leaving the Bar.

D-3 = #4 is the location of the 2 Marriott Hotels - where the 2 brothers (and now Joran) claim they dropped Joran and Natalee off after leaving the lighthouse -  the 2 brothers claim they went home to Hooiberg after that.

D-3 = #19 is the location of the Holiday Inn where Natalee was staying.

G-5 = Where the red #2 marker is pointing to is the area that the Carlos & Charlie Bar is located

D-4 = Township of Montana is where Joran lives

F-7/8 = Hooiberg (Haystack Mountain) - The 2 Kalpoe brothers live in this area at the foot of the Haystack Mountian.

C-9 = By the Natural Bridge on the map is the location where the sharks hang out as they are fed at this location. This is the Shark Infested Feeding Area.

E-3 = Wetland in the Bird Sanctuary is the location where they found the Condoms/Condom Wrappers - Duct Tape (looked like black electrical tape to me) - Female Flowered Panties - and a String or Strap from a Bikini or Halter Top.

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PLEASE KEEP THIS THREAD LARGE PICTURE FREE FOR DIAL UP ISP USERS.

I am asking that everyone either post just a link to the pictures they wish to share or reduce the size of the picture when you use the img src tag.

This will help greatly for us who are on Dial-up.

Examples

Just a link to a picture like this...(this is the simplest method)
http://www.arubavacationhouse.com/images/arubamap.gif

or reduce this image size like this (you need to know HTML to do it this way)

 

[Otta B Sleepin]

Guess I missed something along the way then. I thought earlier reports said Joran had already left for home by the time they arrived, and that they found him there (at home) about 15 minutes later.

[Howlin]

That's not private funding; they travel voluntarily on donations from citizens.

And there's no chance in hell that the FBI would leave just because a private search group was coming down there.

There has to be another reason.

[TexKat]

We know these three in jail were the last to see Natalee that night

Are you sure? Are you positive?

Lets just say: To our knowledge or what has been reported that Joran, Statish, and Deepak were the last to see Natalee.

[gingersnaps]

CitizenM, thanks so much for your very thoughtful post. It is all so well put.

I could say the same as you: In the beginning I was very, very ready to jump on all of them. I got on the bandwagon about their lifestyle, Joran's behavior, etc. I might have been too hasty.

In fact, I believe I was the first person to make the Robert Chambers (yuppie murderer) analogy with Joran van der Sloot. I even posted photos of Robert Chambers next to photos of Joran vdS here on FR.

Soon after that, however, I started to think along the lines of what you said so well here: Many have attested that he is not the typical troublemaker, sleezeball, bad student, sports jock, or girl chaser that we originally thought he was. Are his bad qualities too different than many boys at that age? I am not so sure. Did he cross the line, go wild and commit some horrible act? I am not sure of that either.

This especially was brought home to me when I started thinking about one of my own sons, who is very like Joran van der Sloot in many ways: He's tall, smart, a babe-magnet, very "outgoing" (as Joran's mother describes him), clowns around with his friends in photos posted on websites, and likes to stay out late --yet manages to do very very well in a very demanding school.

I also have a pretty, smart, blond, accomplished daughter who won a scholarship to college, and is close to Natalee's age.

So I can easily picture myself in both parents' shoes, and am not attacking one set of parents and defending the other.

But I'm really appalled at the vicious, almost pack-mentality I see here, with posters jumping to conclusions with somehow undeniable "facts," as purveyed by the media we all know we can trust ( /s ) -- and jumping on other posters who dare to disagree.

I wonder if it's occurred to anyone that the investigation might be "STALLED," as someone posted this morning, because the suspects in custody just might, MIGHT, be innocent and know nothing of what ultimately happened to Natalee? And that many of those "facts" accepted as gospel truth here aren't REALLY facts we know to be facts, for sure.

If that scenario is true, then there's very little we can expect to get out of them except perhaps a false confession under pressure. And that wouldn't help anyone, would it.

And you're right that there's very little we here can do to help in this situation, except to pray that Natalee be found safe. And, failing that, that justice be done. To the right person, or persons.

[No Surrender No Retreat]

In reality none, but some will use this as a way to reflect PC bad on Ms. Holloway.

This was an opportunity for the VDS's Family to gain some sympathy for their son/them.

The lawyers of the VDS Clan used this meeting to their client's advantage and Greta took the hook.

I am glad Ms Holloway did not attend, to me it would be very difficult to breath the same air as them.

It's an American thing, Arubans do not understand. NSNR

[hummingbird]

If it wasn't for the vigilance of the Holloway family and all of us supporters out here those bums would probably still be on the streets!

Don't know anything about Aruban LE. Is it possible the 3 are in custody to protect them rather than their being held as suspects? "Jack Bauer" from '24' could have had an answer from a two-minute "interrogation;" "Det. Sipowicz" of 'NYPD' would need maybe "5 minutes alone with those scumbags." My neice (10 yrs old) and nephews (6 & 2 years old) arguing amongst themselves on a hot day could probably get some kind of admission. Yet, the Aruban authorities are stalled?! Report last night was that 10 - 11 people were going to be arrested. Did that happen?

[Howlin]

I was wrong; I corrected myself later on the thread. You'll get to it. :-)

[Toespi]

Yes I have two children that I love dearly, are you insinuating that I couldn't possibly understand loss or heartbreak simply because I found "Jugs" statements very self-serving and threatening?

[Howlin]

but I suspect he is used to getting his way and his moneys worth all at the same time.

Can you not post without trashing them?

Get back to me and let me know how YOU handle it when your child goes missing and you think they're dead.

[kcat]

Interesting...do you know Jug? YOu sure sound like you do. I 'm glad you are not my parent. If my kid was missing I would be as "menacing" as hell toward the people last seen with him or her. Especially in the first 24 hours. Why is this even being argued? Why am I arguing with FR?

[Nita Nupress]

Thats why I said in post #1989 that the Aruban LE dropped the ball. Never should have happened in that manner.

That was one of many mistakes made by the Aruban LE. I can understand why the Twittys took the opportunity to go to the Sloots house. Who wouldn't if given a chance? Emotions were running high, and they were probably in panic mode by then. Has anyone here ever lost a child in a store, even momentarily? Imagine experiencing those emotions non-stop from noon on Monday until midnight that night (or whenever this happened). It's gut-wrenching to think about it.

At the same time, if Papa Sloot is innocent, his defensive behavior is understandable, especially considering he was in his own home minding his own business. There's no way I would let some foreign family interrogate my son in the middle of the night if I were in his shoes. If Papa Sloot really was taken by surprise and had no part in this, he had no idea what was going on when these foreigners appeared at his gate wanting to know about his son.

But if Papa Sloot knew about it, his defensive behavior makes a lot of sense, too.

There. Now it's clear as mud. :-)

[hershey]

That trickle of perspiration down Papa van Der Sloot's face during the interview gave the game away. Plus his rigid expression and almost total silence. Clearly they love their son, as any parent would, and my heart breaks for them. But I think the father suspects Joran is very much involved and he's scared to death. Still, the decent thing to do would be to make your son tell what he knows. Perhaps it was an accident, perhaps N struggled with J in the back seat, not wanting to be raped. He put an arm on her neck, maybe, and she suffocated. They might have thought at first she'd fallen asleep, but if they'd dumped her on the beach, she'd have been found by now. They should have brought her back to the hotel, dead or alive. They should have walked her inside, or if she was dead, they should have dialed 911 or its equivalent and told the truth. If they threw her body in the sea, that changes everything, of course.

[kcat]

No, I'm suggesting that you do not seem like the kind of person who would do anything and everything within your power regardless of whether it was politically correct to find your kid. I'm going back to lurker mode. Bye.

[Toespi]

Trashing him? Hardly, I am responding to the absurd interview he gave Greta last night. I don't know how I would handle that loss but I do know I would be more interested in justice than worrying about a bracelet that someone may or may not be wearing.

[Howlin]

my kid was missing I would be as "menacing" as hell toward the people last seen with him or her.

ROFLMAO!

[gingersnaps]

All you've said is fine, but I'm only "chastising" those I think have made amazing and unjustifiable leaps with "evidence" they can't possibly be sure of.

Btw, I've been on FR since 1998, so I'm hardly new here. (The screenname is new, because I took a long hiatus due to family business and couldn't remember my old password when I came back. Plus, I hated the old screenname anyway.)

So I'm quite familiar with many posters. No, I haven't read every post on this thread, but I think I've seen more than enough to say what I said.

[Howlin]

I personally believe the father is involved, after the fact.

[elli1]

That the FBI is better qualified (in a lot of ways) to investigate a missing person/ presumed kidnapped & murdered case is not the point. The point is jurisdiction. The point is that when a US citizen leaves US soil, they also leave US legal jurisdiction. That is, or should be, understood.

That the Arubans would be reluctant to accept help from the FBI is understandable. We agree that the Bureau has been politicized in the past. Perceptions die hard. And the ongoing gum-flapping about Gitmo & people like Durbin citing e-mails from an alleged FBI source does not help. It sends a message that the FBI cannot be trusted to keep their mouths shut aside from how trivial the 'abuse', even if true, is perceived by Arubans in consideration of their investigative & interrogative methods.

I'll wager that no investigation is 100% perfect. As you said, we don't know what the Arubans are doing right. It's fair to say that they do things 'differently'. Tentatively, I'm surmising that their emphasis is on interrogation and are considerably less hamstrung by rights of the accused. Conversely, forensics plays a larger role in US investigations. In any case, my opinion is that the Arubans are highly motivated to solve the case, for real. Aside from the negative effect on tourism, I can't imagine that they'd be comfortable knowing a presumed killer was at large on their small island.

As to my qualifications, I'd guess that I'm at least as qualified as about 90% of the posters on this thread. Mysteries fascinate me--wish I had pursued investigation/ analysis as an occupation.

You are also speculating that everything is everything.

That is the nature of the Speculation Beast. In the absence of known-knowns, just about anything is possible.

[vigilante2]

I haven't heard of any recent updates as of today

[pamlet]

The house is gated.. and they have a couple dogs...

When I think about it Aruba LE didn't drop the ball in MY eyes until they didn't hold the boys the first time.

When the Natalee's parents arrived she had not been missing even 24 hours... or right at it. We have absolutely no idea how many people miss their flights/boats. Even here in the states LE won't get involved for 24 hours for adults - on Aruba Natalee is an adult. I think once the parents arrived on the island and LE saw that the parents were freaking out and that this wasn't a "normal" missed the flight that's when they just started looking.