Joking Pilots in Commuter Jet Crash Wanted to 'have a Little Fun' by Climbing to 41,000 Feet

AP ^ | AP-ES-06-13-05 1117EDT

[Tennessee_Bob]

Oh yeah - hydrazine - allegedly, if you smelled it, you were already overdosed. I don't remember a codeword specifically for a hydrazine spill. We called fuel spills of any sort an "applecart" over the radio.

[Monterrosa-24]

"They were idiots."

They were pilots. All pilots I've met seem to be the type to push the limits in both the Officer's Club and in the sky. It is the Jimmy Doolittle, Billy Mitchell, Yuri Gagaren, Chuck Yeagar spirit. They are wild and they die but they also live.

[demlosers]

hydrazine

Nasty stuff.

[Finalapproach29er]

There are bold pilots, and old pilots- but there are no old,bold pilots.

[Tennessee_Bob]

We had a couple come back during the first Gulf War that holes blown through the wings a foot or two across. I wouldn't want to be on the ground and shoot at one and not kill it - because then, it's pissed off and wounded.

[HardStarboard]

>>>The manufacturer better put out a warning notice. <<<

Given the typical level of competence in the FAA, they will mandate that the warning notice be stuck over the face of the altimiter.

[Still Thinking]

If 41K ft is the maximum for the craft, why did the engines shut down? Are there factors not allowed for in the specification that will ar times reduce it? Surely the builder would rate the maximum with a certain factor of safety, at least for whatever parameters were included in the rating.

[safisoft]

AGL or ASL?

Neither. Flight Level. Pressure Altitude. Fly jets, you'll know the difference.

[Pukin Dog]

Pilots that push limits are stupid pilots. A good pilot is trained to go up to the limit (military) or to not go near them (civilian) unless under specific circumstances. The men that you mentioned were classic professionals, not cowboys. But the fact that many if not most pilots drink like fishes has led to this reputation.

[Frank_2001]

There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots; but there are no old bold pilots;)

[paddles]

Something like that. Min airspeed for an airstart in the F/A-18 is 180kts.

[Nathan Zachary]

Maybe the compressors failed, flooding the engines. They could have burned out trying to move so much thin air to keep up with demand. They were probably at or close to full throttle.

[Still Thinking]

The good ol' P&W engines on the airliner I was on were engineered well enough to accomodate it.

They probably had the misfortune to have engines from Generous Electric! I know an ex-employee that won't even buy their light bulbs (not a personal grudge, he just figures anything not made by GE's got to be better than the corresponding GE product).

[connectthedots]

Just talked to my 27 year-old son , who is a Pinnacle captain (He's been an airline pilot since he was 21). Told me there are two ways to restart the engines and that the major focus of the hearings should be why the pilots did not get them restarted.

Most of all, this is a case of pilot stupidity.

[safisoft]

Hey bud, if the engines took them up there, but failed to bring them back, it is the pilots who are at fault. Jet aircraft are not toys to play around with. Unless your jet comes equipped with ejection seats, you don't go anywhere near the limits. They were idiot.

You don't know what you are talking about. I am an airline pilot for a major US carrier and I REGULARLY take my aircraft to the Max altitude. Jets are not toys, but published limits are limits for a reason. Stick to stuff you know about.

[Squantos]

Yeah we approached it in SCBA........I remember the Titan III missle was also fueled in such a manner with hydrogentetroxide (sp?) and Hydrazine if my memory serves me correct. Saw that stuff rust a S&W revolver left on the floor of the 2 floor of the 3 story launch control complex to a stain in less than a 48hr period at a site in Rock Kansas where a leak had occured.

Nasty stuff indeed......ya'll stay safe !

[safisoft]

Can't argue your point -- makes sense to me. I assume they filed a flight plan.

Flight planned altitudes are just that: planned. Rarely do you fly your planned altitude, but make excursions for weather or a better ride etc. They simply requested FL410 and received it.

[Dashing Dasher]

One of my favorite aviation quotes....

Whenever we talk about a pilot who has been killed in a flying accident, we should all keep one thing in mind. He called upon the sum of all his knowledge and made a judgment. He believed in it so strongly that he knowingly bet his life on it. That his judgment was faulty is a tragedy, not stupidity. Every instructor, supervisor, and contemporary who ever spoke to him had an opportunity to influence his judgment, so a little bit of all of us goes with every pilot we lose.

— author unknown

[safisoft]

There are bold pilots, and old pilots- but there are no old,bold pilots.

Like I said before, if they were at the PUBLISHED max alitude for this aircraft, then there was nothing bold about it at all. Every airline pilot I know would have no hesitation at all to go to their max cruise altitude if they could maintain 1.3 gs. That is the concern of most pilots. If their charts showed them good to that altitude, then it was quite natural to go there.

There are a lot of people on this thread who have never seen the inside of a airliner flight deck, and have no idea what they are talking about.

[Blood of Tyrants]

Don't know. The article says that the plane was supposed to be able to fly at 41k. It was the edge of the flight envelope, but it was within it.