[safisoft]

Hey bud, if the engines took them up there, but failed to bring them back, it is the pilots who are at fault. Jet aircraft are not toys to play around with. Unless your jet comes equipped with ejection seats, you don't go anywhere near the limits. They were idiot.

You don't know what you are talking about. I am an airline pilot for a major US carrier and I REGULARLY take my aircraft to the Max altitude. Jets are not toys, but published limits are limits for a reason. Stick to stuff you know about.

[bootless]

Daughter of a (late) airline pilot/B-17 commander here (and a little ol' PPL) ... I've seen enough performance charts here and there to know that the "iffy" factor has been lawyerized out of the charts. If a speed, altitude, gross weight, etc. is listed in performance charts, they've been tested to the satisfaction of the lawyers (sad to say). I confess that I don't know what the "wiggle room" factor is for performance charts for jets... is there any?