Huge Confederate flag flying high over I-65

decaturdaily. ^ | 13-June-2005

[stainlessbanner]

VERBENA (AP) — A huge Confederate battle flag flying over Interstate 65 north of Montgomery will become a permanent fixture, according to officials with the Sons of Confederate Veterans.

The organization bought land on the side of the interstate near Verbena and put up the flag, which has been flying for several months above the tree lines from the top of a large pole, easily visible from the heavily traveled interstate.

Leonard Wilson, commander of the Alabama division of Sons of Confederate Veterans, said the flag will be dedicated in a ceremony at 5 p.m. on June 26.

The flag is located on a little more than half an acre of land just north of where Autauga County 68 crosses over the interstate, about six miles south of the Verbena exit.

"We put the flag up so people could see it," Wilson said. "We are showing off our heritage. The flag is part of our heritage."

Critics of Confederate flag displays say they are reminders of the slavery era and Alabama's racist past, and can damage Alabama's image when flown beside a busy interstate route to Gulf beaches.

[Ohioan]

The realignment to which I have referred was not an instant mass movement. But if you go back to the political history of the 1930s, you will find a succession of lifelong Conservative Democrats--men like Al Smith, Jim Reed, even the great Indian Humorist, Will Rogers, repudiating Roosevelt, and the New Deal--and in some cases endorsing Republican candidates. These men were not isolated in one area, but could be found in every region.

This never became any sort of avalanche, because the Republicans started nominating "Me Too" types, like Landon and Dewey. But had Taft won the nomination in 1952, many of the Conservative Southerners would have endorsed him. As it was, even though Eisenhower was a Moderate to Liberal, drafted by the Dewey wing, Harry Byrd adopted a policy of "Golden Silence" on the ticket, which was taken to be tacit approval of Virginia Democrats--true Conservatives--voting for Ike over Stevenson.

When Thurmond switched parties in 1964, in support of Barry Goldwater, most other Conservative Democrats remained pat, although many voted for Goldwater in the fall. But the movement had nevertheless started. It gradually gathered momentum, as Reagan began to emerge as Goldwater's successor. The Wallace campaign in 1968 helped lossen the bonds of party sentiment, and the bulk of the Wallace Democrats later became the Reagan Democrats--not only in the South, but in many Northern States, where Wallace had drawn away the Conservative Blue Collar workers, from the Humphrey ticket--although many still remained within the Democratic Party, as did Wallace himself.

I am very conscious of all of this, because I started out as a Conservative Democrat--a great admirer of Harry Byrd and the Conservative organization in Virginia. While as a young lawyer, I was working closely with Goldwater Republicans by 1960--as a founding member of a local group devoted to the Goldwater nomination from December, 1960 on, I did not actually formally become a Republican until about the same time as Strom Thurmond--also to support Goldwater.

Actually, while growing up in the 1950s, I can tell you that throughout that period, the Conservative/Liberal division was much more important to most of us than the party labels. There was a Conservative coalition, across party lines in Congress, which was responsible for most of the good that was done, and for blocking a lot of bad that was otherwise intended.

William Flax

[Ohioan]

I said:

While there may occasionally be a thread, initiated by Southerners to attack the North, the majority of the Civil War threads have been examples of anti-Southern hate mongers gratuitously intruding into tributes to the proud heritage of the American South, to spew hate and venom. This thread is a good example. There was no reason for most of the anti-Southern invective above, but blind and stupid hate.

You responded:

Nonsense. Look who started the thread, "stainlessbanner." Most of these threads have been started by some "stainlessbanner" or "sheltonmac" to crow like a cock on a dunghill about the Old South. Very, very few were started as attacks on Southerners.

You have precisely confirmed my point. This was not a thread attacking Northern culture, it was a thread by a proud Southerner, paying tribute to his own culture. Why are you and the other South haters even on it? (And comparing the gracious civilization that was the Old South to a dunghill, is about as insulting and mindless a comment as one could imagine.)

You also beg a lot of questions in your concluding paragraph:

I probably would have voted for Bell or Douglas in 1860 too, but it's time we got beyond the self-justifying Southern myths about the war and reconstruction and give the abolitionists and Republicans their fair due. Those who dislike civil rights will doubtless disagree, but if one accepts and values the strides America has made on racial questions over the past two generations it's only right to honor the forerunners.

I have earlier--on this thread--posted a link to Senator Webster's speech, which deals with giving the abolitionists "their fair due." (See Webster Speech.) As for liking "civil rights?" Civil rights are simply rights that a Government creates for the people affected. They are neither good nor bad, per se. The term simply distinguishes them from the natural rights, that come from God, and which were always very important to traditional Americans.

As for the "Civil Rights," to which I think you refer, and the "values and strides" of the past two generations? I dealt with them some years ago in an essay which relates them to the Reconstruction era, even as you would. The difference is that I find the movement a repudiation of traditional American values. It is hardly something that should be celebrated:

Civil War, Reconstruction & Creating Hate In America Today.

William Flax

[M. Espinola]

I asked you before, slavery & segregation apologist, if you had any relatives who died during the Holocaust ('cult' to use your term) and no answer was forth coming. You dare attempt to sit on your two faced neo-confederate horse lecturing me or others on anything dealing with the Holocaust?

"But you still have not explained why you are off on the tangent of smearing a West Virginia Senator..."

You clearly and repeatedly demonstrate your defense for the liberal Democrat, Robert 'KKK' Byrd, yet proclaim to be a 'Conservative' while anyone not voicing total approval of the bombastic statements defending the 'Old South' which you continuously utter on here, defending the 'lost cause' of racist segregationists as somehow being connected with 'states rights', as if that honours real conservatives.

On August 6th, 1965 Big 'D' West Virginia Sen. Robert Byrd -- who continues to serve in the Senate today -- staged a 14-hour filibuster, and had the votes of 22 other Senate Democrats trying to kill a bill which would ban discriminatory voting practices including poll taxes and literacy tests as prerequisites to voting as an American citizen.

But Illinois Republican Everett Dirksen rallied 26 GOP senators and 44 Democrats to cut off debate and allow the bill's passage.

The very same bill you too stated on this very thread as being are totally opposed to - right? The one you defend, 'KKK' Byrd's Spokesman Draws Blank on Lynching Role NewsMax.com

Key votes from Robert 'Sheets' Byrd of West Virgina:

2004 Senator Byrd supported the interests of the National Abortion Reproductive Rights Action League 100 percent in 2004.

2001-2002 Senator Byrd supported the interests of the National Right to Life Committee 0 percent in 2001-2002.

2000 Senator Byrd supported the interests of the National Abortion Reproductive Rights Action League 90 percent in 2000.

1999-2000 Senator Byrd supported the interests of the National Right to Life Committee 11 percent in 1999-2000.

1999 Senator Byrd supported the interests of the Planned Parenthood 85 percent in 1999.

1996-2003 Senator Byrd supported the interests of the Planned Parenthood (Senate) 89 percent in 1996-2003.

2000 On the votes that the Americans for the Arts considered to be the most important in 2000, Senator Byrd voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

2003-2004 Senator Byrd supported the interests of the National Tax Limitation Committee 8 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator Byrd supported the interests of the National Federation of Independent Business 0 percent in 2003-2004.

2004 Senator Byrd supported the interests of the Arab American Institute 100 percent in 2004.

2001-2002 Based on legislative votes, sponsorship of legislation not voted upon, and endorsements of special "dear colleague" letters that the Arab American Institute considered to be the most important in 2001-2002, Senator Byrd supported their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

2004 Senator Byrd supported the interests of the Family Research Council 17 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Byrd supported the interests of the Christian Coalition 20 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Byrd supported the interests of the American Conservative Union 8 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Byrd supported the interests of the Republican Liberty Caucus 19 percent in 2004.

2003 Senator Byrd supported the interests of the Family Research Council 14 percent in 2003.

2003-2004 Senator Byrd supported the interests of the National School Boards Association 100 percent in 2003-2004.

2004 Senator Byrd supported the interests of the Peace Action 100 percent in 2004.

2002 Senator Byrd supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 85 percent in 2002.

2001-2002 Senator Byrd supported the interests of the American Bar Association 100 percent in 2001-2002.

1999-2000 Senator Byrd supported the interests of the American Bar Association 100 percent in 1999-2000.

2004 Senator Byrd supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 90 percent in 2004.

2003-2004 Senator Byrd supported the interests of the Center for Security Policy 11 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 In 2003-2004 National Association of Social Workers endorsed Senator Byrd.

THE LIFE AND TIMES OF ROBERT "SHEETS" BYRD By Michelle Malkin

Byrd's KKK Alibi Comes Unraveled

"Sheets" Byrd has voted against Clarence Thomas - wonder why?

Robert 'KKK' Byrd would also consider himself a die-hard "Southern traditionalist"

just like ----- you! :)

[M. Espinola]

"While there may occasionally be a thread, initiated by Southerners to attack the North..

lol-That's a joke. The vast majority of these threads are always posted by the same little group of neo-confedetrates attempting to promote their so-called 'lost' cause.

Return to your 'gods'.

[M. Espinola]

"This was not a thread attacking Northern culture, it was a thread by a proud Southerner, paying tribute to his own culture. Why are you and the other South haters even on it?

Now this "old Confederacy" schmuck is dictating which threads people can post on? Incredible arrogant nerve!

" (And comparing the gracious civilization that was the Old South to a dunghill, is about as insulting and mindless a comment as one could imagine.)"

Escaping from the "gracious civilization that was the Old South"

I'd bet the one who posted the comment "gracious civilization that was the Old South" would have been the type to turn in escaping slaves from the South - for a reward, while saying 'it's the law after all'.

[4CJ]

while saying 'it's the law after all'.

There actions were illegal, and violations of the Constitution. That made those states to be in rebellion to the federal government. Lincoln should have blockaded their ports, raised armies to invade the rebellious northern states, arrest thousands that disagreed with his policies, burn their crops and homes, kill their women and children, destroy their factories, occupy them with millions of Southerners and rule them with military governments while robbing their state treasuries blind. </sarcasm>

If the North is the Mecca you claim it to be, why don't all blacks live there?

[M. Espinola]

Your latest incoherent, hallucinatory rambling from post #786 is not worth reprinting.

"If the North is the Mecca you claim it to be, why don't all blacks live there?"

Yet another typical, ignorant, bigoted remark, but what else is new?.

[HiTech RedNeck]

yeeHAWWWWWWWWWW

[4CJ]

Your latest incoherent ...

Sorry about your reading skills and comprehension. I thought yankee schools were better than our Southern ones. My bad.

Yet another typical, ignorant, bigoted remark ...

What bigotry? From dictionary.com:

The attitude, state of mind, or behavior characteristic of a bigot; intolerance.

I asked a simple question, seeking only to discover why millions and millions of blacks continue to chose to live in the South. In fact, many blacks are migrating back to the South.

[Ohioan]

I asked you before, slavery & segregation apologist, if you had any relatives who died during the Holocaust ('cult' to use your term) and no answer was forth coming. You dare attempt to sit on your two faced neo-confederate horse lecturing me or others on anything dealing with the Holocaust?

We had neither slavery nor forced segregation in Ohio, so how am I an apologist? Because I understand that under the sacred bond of the Constitution, those issues were left to the States? Your hatred obscures your perception of the issues.

It is none of your business whether I had personal losses among relatives remaining in Europe during what you have packaged under a non-descriptive label. We are not on a personal, consoling over grief basis. Trust me, you will never be my confidant over personal misfortune.

As for my being a "neo-Confederate?" Find any place where I advocate that the South secede, today. We desperately need the people you seek to smear, if we are going to prevent would be National Socialist types, like yourself, destroying what is left of the intended character of the American Union.

And before you get on your moral high horse, about my selection of the National Socialist comparison, rather than Fascist or Communist, I will be very precise. The Fascists and Communists also sought monolithic States, and centrally dictated standards for human thought processes; but no one took the idea that there was only one acceptable way to think about problems flowing from human interaction further than the ranting Nazis. Your every post shows a total intolerance of anyone who does not want to accept your approach to the dynamics of interaction between the races; your approach to the dynamics of interaction between the States; your wish to centralize all questions of the suffrage; your approach to the social issues of the time.

You have already demonstrated your willingness to doctor pictures; to talk about a different Senator Byrd, who has nothing whatever to do with the point I made. In short, to employ the tactics of the "Big Lie," but with a Goebbelian flair--though with less talent.

Of course, you hate my article, based in part upon the surviving power of the Ten Commandments, as an answer to the Nazi tactics. You embrace the Nazi tactics, only in your case it is not the German Jews who are the targets, but the traditional Southern Conservatives, Jew and Gentile alike. In my opinion, you are beneath contempt.

William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site

[Ohioan]

I pointed out that it was the South haters, who regularly went out of their way to attack the Southern tradition, and you responded" lol-That's a joke. The vast majority of these threads are always posted by the same little group of neo-confedetrates attempting to promote their so-called 'lost' cause. Return to your 'gods'.

Once more, you confirm my point, but in the usual insulting manner with your imititation Goebbelian twist. Why, but to promote hatred, are you on this thread? I am on it to demonstrate my friendship with fellow American Conservatives, who honor their special heritage. You appear to be on it to cause a rift among Conservativew, while demonizing those who dare to think for themselves.

As for my 'gods?' Sir, my God is He who Moses reported directed Mankind to NOT bear false witness; who directed people to honor their lineage.

Since your myopic research has not made you familiar with the Kipling Poem, which is the theme of my novel, let me post a link, so that you may at least have an opportunity for enlightenment: Gods Of The Copybook Headings. It has long been a great favorite among true Conservatives on both sides of the Atlantic. But then, we both realize that you have no interest in conserving the heritage--only crushing those who do!

William Flax

[Ohioan]

You also have no guts. When you post a reply to my post 782, and do not include me in the "To," you demonstrate another aspect to your character. Frankly, it was only by accident that I caught this.

I do not usually post to multiple parties. But your intellectual cowardice deserves to be exposed for what it is.

William Flax

[uncitizen]

They chose a beautiful stretch of highway on which to fly the flag.

[M. Espinola]

"Sorry about your reading skills and comprehension. I thought yankee schools were better than our Southern ones. My bad."

In this case you are actually 100% correct, for once. The the regional institutions of higher learner in question do tend to demonstrate consistently higher GPA's. Like other portions of the nations it would be greatly beneficial for everyone concerned if left over hippies were replaced with conservatives professors. :)

Oh, I believe your being called home for din din with the 'yeeHAWWWWWWWWWW' lol.

[M. Espinola]

You still have not addressed the question on whether or not you had any relatives which died in the Jewish Holocaust, what you labeled a "Cult."

You reply:

"It is none of your business whether I had personal losses among relatives remaining in Europe during what you have packaged under a non-descriptive label."

I realize how difficulty it is for you to even type 'Holocaust' or 'Shoah' in relation to the term "Cult" you invented out of your phobias.

It would be a real kick watching you in a grouping of observant Jews speaking in terms of the Holocaust, and you Mr Know-it-all pops up in the midst, yelling wildly; 'You people are all, all wrong, it was a CULT damnit! When will you understand that?!!'

What would happen to you, let say wouldn't be kosher! Sammy used to tell Frank & Dean, 'goyim, goyim, gone'! LOL

"We had neither slavery nor forced segregation in Ohio, so how am I an apologist? Because I understand that under the sacred bond of the Constitution, those issues were left to the States?"

"Ohio" was never in question. Slavery and segregation in the South would have never ended if left up to you, since you have stated "those issues were left to the States?" and it's none of your 'business what over states do'.

"You have already demonstrated your willingness to doctor pictures; to talk about a different Senator Byrd.."

Robert 'Sheets' Byrd of West Virgina has admitted he was in the KKK. I understand how hard it is for you to accept - lol.

You thought about replying to the FR threads & links which I posted on your hero Robbert 'KKK' Byrd, but then you would tip your hand once again, showing yourself for slamming even more Conservatives which disagree with today's neo-confederates - like you.

[M. Espinola]

...."include me in the "To,"

'To' okay?

How about that Underground Railroad and all those people escaping your "gracious civilization that was the Old South"

Don't tell me those escaping did not read your countless memos on that"gracious civilization that was the Old South". 'Gracious' for whom?

Then under the elongated post Civil War era of Jim Crow millions more left. Did Southern segregation based of which race Americans happened to be born ever exist in your twisted 'Big Lie' overview of United States history?

"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time." Abraham Lincoln

[Ohioan]

You continue to employ the tactics of the "Big Lie," employed by the great totalitarian Socialist monoliths of the Twentieth Century. That your target is the Old South and its defenders, rather than the Landowners in Russia or the Jews in Germany, does not change the tactics, or the ideological bent that such tactics reflect.

Let us review some of your latest thrusts:

You still have not addressed the question on whether or not you had any relatives which died in the Jewish Holocaust, what you labeled a "Cult." You reply:

"It is none of your business whether I had personal losses among relatives remaining in Europe during what you have packaged under a non-descriptive label."

My actual response was:

It is none of your business whether I had personal losses among relatives remaining in Europe during what you have packaged under a non-descriptive label. We are not on a personal, consoling over grief basis. Trust me, you will never be my confidant over personal misfortune.

Your arrogant stupidity over whether or not I had personal losses, notwithstanding, you continue--as the liar you are--to misrepresent the nature of my article on the Socialist slaughter of European Jews. Why is it important to characterize it for what it actually was? Because, you Nazi minded hate monger, the non-descriptive term lends itself to the illusion that it was something that just arose from a particular political group, only active for a few years, before the event. When the reality is, that it was the culmination of a Century of German Socialist hate mongering and scape goating, in many respects similar to what you have tried to do to the Southern Traditionalist.

You pretend that you want to prevent a recurrence, but proceed precisely along the demonizing lines that led to the slaughter in question, in the first place. (Only a defender of Socialist, monolithic value systems, would want to distort the fact that the slaughter grew out of the hatred of Socialists for high achieving peoples.)

Just what do you imagine are my "phobias?" I rationally discuss a situation, and propose a rational response. It is you who are obviously driven by phobias. But again, let anyone interested judge for themselves, which of us is the Conservative, defender of traditional values: The Cult Of The Holocaust

I do not want to make this response too bulky, but at the essay in question, one can link to other articles on other hate driven acts against innocent people, whose only offense was that they were high achievers.

Next, you again offer a concocted picture of Senator Robert Byrd of West Virginia, and continue with this comment: Robert 'Sheets' Byrd of West Virgina has admitted he was in the KKK. I understand how hard it is for you to accept - lol. You thought about replying to the FR threads & links which I posted on your hero Robbert 'KKK' Byrd, but then you would tip your hand once again, showing yourself for slamming even more Conservatives which disagree with today's neo-confederates - like you.

This is an excellent example of your use of the Nazi smear techniques--the techniques that led to what you choose to call the "Holocaust." You endlessly repeat something that is true, but of no relevance to much of anything. You then accuse those who say that your point is no point, as being covering up something. Pretty soon, you progress to suggestions that anyone who disagrees with your ranting about irrelevant data is somehow an enemy of the State, and beyond the pale. (I note, here, also, the threat you made earlier.)

1. The rational, non-hate filled, will recall, that you, not I, injected Robert Byrd into a discussion, in which I had cited Harry Byrd, the great Senator from the Old Dominion, as an example. You have then, like the Nazi type you have become, since repeatedly ranted more and more about Robert Byrd--as though I had in fact cited him to some purpose. (A pathetic example, perhaps of the Marxist single enemy focus technique that Hitler adopted in his attack on German Jews. A technique, which also endlessly reiterated the same lies and exaggerations, over and over again.)

2. Robert Byrd was indeed in the Klu Klux Klan in his youth (the 1940s, I believe was the admission). I do not believe that he has been since. While he is a "Liberal" on many issues, and no favorite of mine, your harping on what he did over half a century ago, is not too persuasive of your intent to be "fair minded." But I did not challenge you on your lack fair mindedness, only on your using doctored pictures. You dare to claim to be defending Jewish interests, while you violate one of the most sacred tenants of Judaism, by bearing false witnsess--and, indeed, in the cause of attacking the people of the South, who still honor their Fathers and Mothers, back through the generations.

As I posted yesterday, you are truly beneath contempt.

William Flax

[Ohioan]

Your #796 is basically incoherent. What little I can glean is that it is more anti-Southern rant.

One more example, that is, of your Nazi like pursuit of one, monolithic system of social values and priorities for all Americans; and the inability to let go of anything that serves your fanatic purpose. But you now appear to be rambling incoherent half-thoughts.

Since, I did "bite" to the extent of this reply, I will post a link to another article, which discusses your mindset: Compulsion For Uniformity.

[M. Espinola]

"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time." Abraham Lincoln

If one were believe you, the segregated South was only a concocted myth invented by "South haters", and the the pre-Civil War South was a wonderful "gracious civilization" for everyone living there, including the millions of slaves, forced to work under the Cotton Empire's brutal Nazi-like system of forced labour - or be flogged or put to death.

Escaping Slavery, U.S. South, 1850s

You and 'Stand Watie' are a perfectly matched couple.

[Modernman]

If one were believe you, the segregated South was only a concocted myth invented by "South haters", and the the pre-Civil War South was a wonderful "gracious civilization" for everyone living there

Because, at the end of the day, for many of the neo-Confederates the suffering of human beings reduced to slavery is a small price to pay for hoop skirts, cotilions and mint julips.

They've gotten smarter over the last generation or so, these apologists for the proto-fascist system in the Old South. They've shed the language of the 1960's segregationists and Klan members and replaced it with their "gracious civilization" and "Dixie liberty" pap.