Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Employers of Illegal Immigrants Face Little Risk of Penalty
LOS ANGELES TIMES ^ | May 29, 2005 | Anna Gorman

Posted on 05/29/2005 4:36:23 AM PDT by kellynla

snip

Owner George Garcia insists that they provide proof, such as Social Security or green cards, that they are authorized to work. What he does not do is pick up the phone to see if the documents are phony.

"I run a business," he said. "Why is it my job to kick people out? It is not my responsibility to figure out who is legal and who is not legal. It's their job to stop them at the border."

Garcia doesn't worry about being fined or arrested by immigration authorities. Even if federal agents did raid his Los Angeles carwash and arrest his undocumented workers, it wouldn't take long to replace them.

"If I lost 20 guys," he said, "within a couple of days I'd have new guys."

snip

About 7 million illegal immigrants worked in the U.S. last year, said the Pew Hispanic Center, a research organization.

"I don't think any average restaurant owner or farmer is shaking in their boots," said Carl Shusterman, a Los Angeles immigration attorney who used to work for the Immigration and Naturalization Service.

"We've seen an effective end to work-site enforcement," said Mark Krikorian, executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies in Washington. "To whatever degree there is enforcement, the only people on the receiving end of it are the illegals, because there are no fines of employers, practically none."

Even when a fine is levied, it often is settled for "cents on the dollar," said Kevin Jeffery, a deputy special agent in charge with Immigration and Customs Enforcement in Los Angeles.

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aliens; illegals; immigration
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-52 next last
To: Hot Tabasco
Imprison the HR dept. for not being trained in being able to identify forged documents over legit. documents?

The IRS provides an 800 number that you call when you hire somebody. It takes about a minute for them to tell you if the name and the social security number match. My plan would be that a company that used this process would have a safe harbor from prosecution and that any company that did not use this process would be prosecuted to the max no matter what phony documents they had on file.

of the 40 people he had already hired, 20 had quit because they couldn't take working in the typical environment found in a foundry

It is nonsense that only illegals will do nasty work and the fact that your factory has 800 Americans working in it proves that. There is never any difficulty hiring either garbage men or plumbers. Both are nasty jobs but they pay great. Maybe the foundry should try offering a better salary and benefits package.

21 posted on 05/29/2005 5:26:25 AM PDT by jackbenimble (Import the third world, become the third world)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Caipirabob

You don't have to be a brain surgeon to figure out that when it's costing the border states of CA,TX,NM and AZ upwards of FIFTEEN BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR to allow the illegals to stay here, it's time to secure the borders and deport the illegals.

Ike did it, so can Bush!


22 posted on 05/29/2005 5:39:55 AM PDT by kellynla (U.S.M.C. 1st Battalion,5th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Div. Viet Nam 69&70 Semper Fi)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: jackbenimble
" The IRS provides an 800 number that you call when you hire somebody."

I've never heard this before. In fact, you could process payroll taxes quarterly and IRS never notifies you of discrepancies. You'd think the state would provide you with the number, or the info on checking soc #'s. Do you actually get to speak to a live operator? Anytime I've dealt with them, unless you have a tax filing question you get into an automation system.

I know that employers have a fine line to walk, particularly since they don't want to be accused of discriminatory hiring practices. You are not allowed to ask a lot of personal questions. If someones paperwork "seems" to be in order, unless you are doing actual background checks, I've never heard of any further government inquiries being done. It also sounds like an undue financial burden on a company to have to verify an increasing amount of information. Particularly if these are low wage employees.

Construction companies and Contractors are also businesses that use sub-contractors in their business. Then you are dealing with license and insurance info....which can all be legitimate, but the person could still be illegal.

23 posted on 05/29/2005 5:47:59 AM PDT by Katya (Homo Nosce Te Ipsum)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: kellynla
Some advocates of a tighter border policy say employers, as well as immigrants, ought to be forced to abide by the law.

It is a sad state of affairs when a country gets to the point where they debate whether or not laws should be obeyed. The 'professional politicians' have failed miserably to govern the country. We are fools if we expect the problems to be fixed by the very people who created them. VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS!

24 posted on 05/29/2005 5:51:54 AM PDT by layman (Card Carrying Infidel)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TXBSAFH
If you hire illegal you should go to jail

How do you identify a birth certificate that shows you were born in San Antonio, or anyplace else in the U.S. for that matter, as being a forged document? I should go to jail and my plant shut down because some guy named Jose who was born in Seattle produced an altered birth cert.?

25 posted on 05/29/2005 6:00:51 AM PDT by Hot Tabasco (Don't hold it against me because I shot the SOB. I'm tired of dealing with stupid people!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: layman

"We are fools if we expect the problems to be fixed by the very people who created them."

Exactly why the Minuteman Project is so popular.
Looking forward to them coming to CA.

"VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS!"
Unfortunately, GWB won't be running reelection, so he has nothing to worry about but the GOP better get their act together or they won't have to worry about being the Majority Party and in the WH for long...


26 posted on 05/29/2005 6:03:29 AM PDT by kellynla (U.S.M.C. 1st Battalion,5th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Div. Viet Nam 69&70 Semper Fi)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Katya
" The IRS provides an 800 number that you call when you hire somebody."

I've never heard this before.

You can learn more about it at the Social Security Number Verification website. The Basic Pilot Project was designed specifically to help employers detect illegals. It is currently optional. It should be made mandatory.

27 posted on 05/29/2005 6:09:09 AM PDT by jackbenimble (Import the third world, become the third world)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: jackbenimble

Okay, so the program is currently optional. The burden still remains with the employer. For example, larger companies file electronically and the IRS does not kick back bogus numbers. Perhaps it takes them more than a year...what then? There is no coordination between the IRS and the INS. So the employer, fires the employee who then goes on to a new company for a job. The INS never steps in. As we've heard from law enforcement across the country, the INS has no interest in picking up illegals. That is the problem that must be corrected first, before we burden private business with law enforcement.


28 posted on 05/29/2005 6:15:39 AM PDT by Katya (Homo Nosce Te Ipsum)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: jackbenimble
It is nonsense that only illegals will do nasty work and the fact that your factory has 800 Americans working in it

I didn't say what you are you are accusing me of, I merely stated a fact. 40 hired, 20 quit, foundry work hard. Period!

Furthermore, you are also assuming the remaining employees are Americans when in fact you don't know and neither do I.

29 posted on 05/29/2005 6:23:59 AM PDT by Hot Tabasco (Don't hold it against me because I shot the SOB. I'm tired of dealing with stupid people!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Hot Tabasco

There are ways, and list of were suspect irth certs are from. There needs to be checks,a database that can be checked. And again I do believe if a company rpeately hiresillegals the officers of that corperation need to go to jail.


30 posted on 05/29/2005 6:24:07 AM PDT by TXBSAFH (Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, who's bringing the chips?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Katya
The burden still remains with the employer. For example, larger companies file electronically and the IRS does not kick back bogus numbers.

Did you read the website I provided? The SSA gives employers several options for verifying social security numbers by phone or in writing. I don't care if it is optional or mandatory. If an employer fails to take advantage of these free tools provided to them by taxpayers then I think they should be subject to prosecution and it should not matter what bogus documents they have on file. On the other hand, if they take advantage of those tools I believe they should be given a safe harbor from prosecution.

31 posted on 05/29/2005 6:25:00 AM PDT by jackbenimble (Import the third world, become the third world)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: kellynla
Ike did it, so can Bush!

I can't wait to see it.

On the other hand, the punitive yet legal tax retaliation gives us a legitimate means to heavily punish people who violate the law. It's a good start, IMHO...

32 posted on 05/29/2005 6:32:45 AM PDT by Caipirabob (Democrats.. Socialists..Commies..Traitors...Who can tell the difference?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: kellynla
...On the other hand.....

El Paso County, Colorado (Colorado Springs) just passed an ordinance banning employers who hire illegals from bidding on county contracts.

33 posted on 05/29/2005 6:37:55 AM PDT by cookcounty ("We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts" ---Abe Lincoln, 1858.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TXBSAFH
There are ways, and list of were suspect irth certs are from

Oh really? Care to share a couple of those sources with me? You have no idea what you are talking about! You have no idea of the hiring processes in big plants and you have no idea how restrictive the privacy laws are in this country that virtually hancuff the employer at every turn.

Furthermore, with a copy of your birth certificate, whiteout, black ink and a xerox machine I can change you into a female, add 10 years to your age and prove you were born in Miami instead of Houston and there is no way any employer could dispute it.....

Most of the birth certificates I have seen have been issued by the city of detroit and were photocopies made from micro-fiche files. In many cases you were lucky if you could even make out the actual dates of birth.....

34 posted on 05/29/2005 6:41:42 AM PDT by Hot Tabasco (Don't hold it against me because I shot the SOB. I'm tired of dealing with stupid people!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: jackbenimble
From their legal disclosure section:

Legal Policy - Don't Discriminate or Misuse EVS - SSA will advise you if a name/SSN you submitted does not match our records. This does not imply that you or your employee intentionally provided incorrect information about the employee's name or SSN. It is not a basis, in and of itself, for you to take any adverse action against the employee, such as laying off, suspending, firing, or discriminating against an individual who appears on the list. EVS should only be used to verify currently or previously employed workers. Company policy concerning the use of EVS should be applied consistently to all workers, e.g. if used for newly hired employees, verify all newly hired employees; if used to verify your data base, verify the entire data base. Any employer that uses the information SSA provides regarding name/SSN verification to justify taking adverse action against an employee may violate state or federal law and be subject to legal consequences. Moreover, this makes no statement about your employee's immigration status.

Wow...this sets my mind at ease.

35 posted on 05/29/2005 6:42:10 AM PDT by Katya (Homo Nosce Te Ipsum)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: cookcounty

Excellent!
Good to know. Thanks for the info.


36 posted on 05/29/2005 6:48:32 AM PDT by kellynla (U.S.M.C. 1st Battalion,5th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Div. Viet Nam 69&70 Semper Fi)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: jackbenimble
***The IRS provides an 800 number that you call when you hire somebody. It takes about a minute for them to tell you if the name and the social security number match.***

Really? Where?
Since seeing your post I've scoured the www.IRS.gov website and every link and can find nary a mention of any such number or service.

However, I did find that the SSA now does have a number: 1-800-772-6270 but note what follows it:

"Legal Policy - Don't Discriminate or Misuse EVS
- SSA will advise you if a name/SSN you submitted does not match our records. This does not imply that you or your employee intentionally provided incorrect information about the employee's name or SSN. It is not a basis, in and of itself, for you to take any adverse action against the employee, such as laying off, suspending, firing, or discriminating against an individual who appears on the list.
Granted there's a lot of scuralous employere's who look only for illegals, but what is a larger 'honorable' Company to do. Take a chance on guessing wrong and face a 97 gazillion dollar discrimination lawsuit?

Oh then there's this from our own friendly DOJ...

Special Counsel for Immigration Related Unfair Employment Practices www.usdoj.gov/crt/osc/

"Q": How can employers verify their employees' employment eligibility in a non-discriminatory manner?
Hire only individuals who are authorized to work. Note that a "U.S. citizens-only" hiring policy is discriminatory except under limited circumstances. An employer may require U.S. citizenship for a particular job only if required to do so by federal, state, or local law or regulation, or by government contract.

Complete the I-9 Form for all new hires. This form gives employers a way to establish that the individuals they hire are authorized to work in the United States. Employers must permit employees to present any document or combination of documents acceptable by law. Employers cannot prefer one document over others for purposes of completing the I-9 Form, and cannot require non-citizens to show particular documents issued by the Department of Homeland Security (or the former Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS)). Authorized aliens do not all carry the same documents. For example, not all aliens who are authorized to work are issued "green cards." As long as the documents are allowed by law and appear to be genuine on their face and to relate to the person, they should be accepted. Not to do so may constitute unlawful discrimination.

In effect our own Government is against US and for the "immigrant". Not to mention all the 'Immigrant Rights Groups". So If I was a small employer I'd be nuts to deny anyone a job who presents any document that looks in any way legit. Unless that is I wanted to wind up in Club Fed or face bankruptcy because I guessed wrong and Juan and Juanita are the 1% who actually are here legally.

So go after the employer? Okay fine, but then also give them immunity from malicious prosecution and civil suits when the good guys guess wrong.

37 posted on 05/29/2005 6:53:51 AM PDT by Condor51 (Leftists are moral and intellectual parasites - Standing Wolf)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: cookcounty

That will hurt home depot.


38 posted on 05/29/2005 7:03:58 AM PDT by Vaduz (and just think how clean the cities would become again.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Hot Tabasco

If a full 10% of a workforce that size consists of illegal aliens, then there is no reasonable way to assert that the management doesn't know they are hiring illegals. In that case, it's their own damn responsibility to figure out what to do! Maybe try paying US wages?


39 posted on 05/29/2005 7:28:56 AM PDT by thoughtomator (The U.S. Constitution poses no serious threat to our form of government)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: thoughtomator
Maybe try paying US wages?

Wages determined by who? You and your government?

Companies that size pay wages based on what it takes them to remain competitive. Of course another alternative would be your government mandated "living wage" but then you certainly wouldn't be too happy about the company's response to that........ LOL! And for the record, that facility has been in existence for a long, long time and certainly isn't paying minimum wage. The wages paid are competitive for the geographic area as well as the health ins. and pension benefits.

You sound like the typical "Wal Mart" basher who first whines about the outsourcing overseas of work and then whines about the wages being paid to workers whose company's choose to remain here on soil..........

Try as you might, you can't have it both ways.

40 posted on 05/29/2005 10:09:10 AM PDT by Hot Tabasco (Don't hold it against me because I shot the SOB. I'm tired of dealing with stupid people!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-52 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson