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Can China Defeat the United States in a Conventional War?
May 20, 2005 | comtedemaistre

Posted on 05/20/2005 8:09:59 AM PDT by ComtedeMaistre

Every day, the economic power and political influence of Red China continues to increase. I am, however, interested in knowing how powerful China is militarily. Is China strong enough to defeat the US in a conventional war? The latest I heard is that they have a total of 10 million trained to serve in their military, including reserves. I would especially like to hear from Freeper veterans as well as those serving in the military, on the potential threat that China poses to the United States.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Foreign Affairs; Government; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: army; china; chinesemilitary; economy; geopolitics; missiles; technology; war
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To: kerryusama04

"We would ultimately control the seas and starve them, "

If we have enough of a Navy left to do so, way to many cuts there.


61 posted on 05/20/2005 8:39:24 AM PDT by conservativewasp (Support John Kerry......... Ho Chi Minh would. Damn! Now I need a new tagline.)
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To: absolootezer0

90% of the security alerts I get from my Symantic Firewall on attempted portal entries on my home computer originate from somewhere in China ( Chinanet etc .)


62 posted on 05/20/2005 8:39:26 AM PDT by Renegade
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To: azhenfud

You forget the basic Chinese tactic during the Korean War - sending wave after wave of PLA attempting to make our machine guns' barrels melt. They probably have more bodies than we have bullets, and they won't hesitate to use them.


63 posted on 05/20/2005 8:41:23 AM PDT by tgusa (USN A-6 pilot)
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To: conservativewasp

Yea...but would we really go nuclear over Taiwan????


64 posted on 05/20/2005 8:41:39 AM PDT by Icthus
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To: television is just wrong

http://www.eagleforum.org/psr/1999/nov99/psrnov99.html


INCREADIBLE

I had to laugh although it's sad.


65 posted on 05/20/2005 8:41:58 AM PDT by Double_in_a_bight (mussi denn mussi denn zum Städele hinaus - Städele hinaus ...)
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To: ComtedeMaistre
I am, however, interested

What is the nature of your interest?

66 posted on 05/20/2005 8:42:36 AM PDT by RightWhale (These problems would not exist if we had had a moon base all along)
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To: Neoliberalnot
We fought China in Vietnam by proxy

Not all were proxies.

67 posted on 05/20/2005 8:44:55 AM PDT by ASA Vet (No, I won't comment further.)
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To: ComtedeMaistre
If China was to seize Taiwan, does the US have the capability, as well as the will, to liberate the territory?

We sure as hell would boycott the Olympics!

SD

68 posted on 05/20/2005 8:46:35 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: superiorslots
You hit the nail on the head. Too many in the U.S. (and this thread) see China as no match to us militarily. I believe that their economic moves are entirely based on gaining economic leverage on us so that they never need to oppose us militarily.
My hope is that the plan may backfire--the more successful they are economically, the more likely the people of China will demand more social, economic, and political freedom
69 posted on 05/20/2005 8:46:44 AM PDT by rightsmart
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To: Double_in_a_bight
naaa Japan has the gear to throw them of.

Could be. I rarely hear/read anything about Japan's defensive capabilities. Any "invasion" by China would be similar to an invasion of Taiwan.....how would the Chicoms actually get there?

It's[Taiwan] obviously equipped to survive until the cavallery arives.

Appears that way.

FGS

70 posted on 05/20/2005 8:47:13 AM PDT by ForGod'sSake (ABCNNBCBS: An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly.)
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To: ComtedeMaistre
Yours is a very good question. Far too many will brush it off as nonsense.

In all probability it will start as a conventional war, with a nuclear standoff, no one wanting throw the first bomb. Who will win???? Good question.

There are so many imponderables that several scenarios could be true.

71 posted on 05/20/2005 8:47:43 AM PDT by cynicom
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To: Brilliant

The Chinese are communists, ergo they are rationalists. They have no supernatural paradise to die for like the Muslims do. Nuclear deterrence means something to them, and their nukes are a deterrence to keep us from using them first.

Regime change in China, using conventional weapons, could be accomplished in a few weeks, as in Iraq. The problem then becomes, what do we replace the regime with? It's clear that we've mastered the art of toppling governments with minimal loss of life, using incredibly advanced technology and psychological warfare.

A fully capitalistic and democratic China becomes a bigger competitor and a more formidable potential adversary. We like China just where it is for now. If China were to become a free-innovating technological powerhouse like the US, then we might well become a candidate for regime change when it served their purposes.


72 posted on 05/20/2005 8:50:10 AM PDT by gregwest
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To: ComtedeMaistre; Brilliant
FYI...

April 2001 - Russian military forces intervened in a mock nuclear conflict between China and the United States over Taiwan during strategic exercises that included Russian preparations to use nuclear weapons on U.S. forces in Asia, The Washington Times has learned. According to the NSA assessment of the February Russian war games, the Russians practiced fighting in Europe and Asia during one of the largest exercises in the past decade, the officials said. The intelligence report was based on communications among Russian forces during the maneuvers Feb. 12 to 16.

"The Asia scenario began with a Chinese military attack on Taiwan that was followed by the use of U.S. ground troops" on the island, said one official. Next, China escalated the conflict by firing tactical nuclear missiles on the U.S. troops in Taiwan, prompting U.S. nuclear strikes on Chinese forces. Russian nuclear forces then threatened to use nuclear missile strikes on U.S. forces in the region, including strikes on troops in South Korea and Japan.

Washington Times story

Note: WT story via Taiwan - original story can no longer be accessed on WT website. This was also reported by the BBC and quoted by the American Defense Council and NTI.

HONG KONG, Feb 2004 - As a pre-election warning to Taiwan's pro-independence forces, China has conducted limited military exercises over coastal areas opposite Taiwan, including parachute landings, beach invasions and air-combat maneuvers, Asia Times Online has learned.

Asia Times

BEIJING, July 26, 2004 -- About 18,000 Chinese troops using their country's most advanced weapons systems last week rehearsed coordinated air, sea and ground attacks on Dongshan, an island in the South China Sea that resembles Taiwan in terrain and weather.

In unusually detailed reporting on China's secretive military, the official newspaper said recently acquired Su-30 fighter jets, a Sovremenny-class destroyer and a Kilo-class submarine participated in the maneuvers. The drill, which coordinated different branches of the military, was designed to display the ability to seize air and sea dominance over Taiwan, the newspaper said.

Washington Post

73 posted on 05/20/2005 8:51:11 AM PDT by ravingnutter
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To: TIGHTEN

Oh good its a joke. I was worried for a second.


74 posted on 05/20/2005 8:53:37 AM PDT by escapefromboston (manny ortez: mvp)
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To: Blzbba
"No, it'd be "No Blood for WalMart" "

No Blood for Eggrolls, perhaps?

Maybe I shoulda said Pork Fried Rice?
75 posted on 05/20/2005 8:53:59 AM PDT by LIConFem (Mein Luftkissenboot ist mit Aalen voll.)
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To: tgusa

But, the fact remains we have more efficient ways to neutralize those "waves" than we did in the Fifties. We would never again depend upon machine guns as we had then.

My belief of Chinese military is they would do as tried in Iraq, hail liberation and blend into the general populus. Then when things seem better, use pock-shots, snipers, IED's, and guerrilla warfare in an attempt to tally an unacceptable US bodycount.

It's found as a way to "preserve" the infrastructure and be abled to continue warring rather than have the total country (and supplies) shut off from soldiers' use.


76 posted on 05/20/2005 8:54:03 AM PDT by azhenfud ("He who is always looking up seldom finds others' lost change...")
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To: dhs12345

Interesting. China would obvioulsy not want to damage the factories and would be eager to reassure the many international clients that China was not going to "nationalize" the factories that had been built (yet).

This would get those businesses and the money grubbers who exported all our technology and jobs to Taiwan and China to pressure Washington to NOT interveine. It would probably behoove the people of Taiwan to place air defense around those factories and use them as staging grounds for counter attacks. This would FORCE the Chinese to destroy them, removing that card from China's deck.


77 posted on 05/20/2005 8:55:41 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: ComtedeMaistre

There are alot of variables to consider, which is why there are professional staffs making plans.

As far as getting to the fight, China would be hard-pressed. In '94, when there was alot of sabre-rattling over this very issue, we considered a Chinese invasion of Taiwan as "the million man swim".

But they might not have to put a million men downrange to achieve their objective. Decapitation missile strikes, extensive electronic warfare, traitorous Taiwanese military formations, a relative handful of mainland paratroopers, all coupled with utter surprise, might be enough to get the job done.

If an extensive Chinese land force were already occupying the island, then no, we would not have the capacity to evict it.

With Taiwan, China knows there's no rough draft. If China does not conquer or hold onto the island after fighting for it, Taiwan will formally secede and be its own nation without the diplomatic tapdance.


78 posted on 05/20/2005 8:57:50 AM PDT by Gefreiter ("Are you drinking 1% because you think you're fat?")
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To: ForGod'sSake

by bycicle...

no they would have to make an assault by sea and air.

I doubt they do it. It just wouldn't pay off. They will buy taiwan one day.


79 posted on 05/20/2005 8:58:34 AM PDT by Double_in_a_bight (mussi denn mussi denn zum Städele hinaus - Städele hinaus ...)
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To: ComtedeMaistre; ForGod'sSake
Here's a quick look at the current factual state of the Chinese Navy that I have documented. It's growing rapidly in terms of quality, new technology and quantity. There can be only one principle force they plan to confront...the US Navy.

The Rising Sea Dragon in Asia

From a projection standpoint as to what they could do in a few years if given the right military and economic alliances and new technologies? Here's my own scenario regarding that, written in a five part novel series.

The Dragon's Fury Series

80 posted on 05/20/2005 9:00:07 AM PDT by Jeff Head
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