Posted on 05/17/2005 6:15:46 AM PDT by sawdust
Pat Buchanan speaks of American conservatism in the past tense. "The conservative movement has passed into history," says the one-time White House aide, three-time presidential candidate, commentator and magazine publisher. "It doesn't exist anymore as a unifying force," he says in an interview with The Washington Times. "There are still a lot of people who are conservative, but the movement is now broken up, crumbled, dismantled." Mr. Buchanan, a former adviser to Presidents Nixon, Ford and Reagan, says conservatism "is at war with itself over foreign policy, over deficit hawks versus supply-siders." Unnamed phonies, he suggests, have infiltrated the movement. There are "a lot of people who call themselves conservative but who, on many issues, I just don't consider as conservative. They are big-government people."
(Excerpt) Read more at washtimes.com ...
Republicans won in landslides in 72 and 88; admittedly conservatives did not.
Why are you so hostile? I just decline to pull quotes out of context and look at the whole picture. I didn't insult you. You wanted to be insulted. It's true -- liberals lie in the same way -- when we know that this nation, and it's laws were partially founded on Religion.
I agree with you 100% on that.
But, it's typical Buchanan. He is spot on about somethings but screws the pooch so poorly on other issues that it negates his cogent points.
Good rebuttal to Buchanan. I should have thought of some of those points myself. Add to what you said the fact that immigrants are probably a majority pro-traditional-values, and your point is strengthened. The flip-side of the immigrants, of course, is that they also come from societies where socialism is viewed as a divine right, so they probably will never be true conservatives.
Conservativism is still alive. You just have to go to the Libertarian or Constitution parties to find it. It's dead in the republican party.
You have entered the rabbit hole.
Time out. BTW, leaving the 'r' in Republican in small case was cute.
Let's take a logical look at your statement. You said conservatism is still alive, but it's alive only in the Libertarian and Constitution parties. Hmmm...
Then it must be dead.
And since when are Libertarians "conservative?" Libertarianism is libertarianism. Saying that conservatism is in those two mutually exclusive parties stretches the definition of conservatism so far that it snaps.
You're right about 1972. Unlike 1988, there was virtually no split in the party during the primaries or election (from what I can remember as a teenager back then). Bad example.
Nixon wasn't conservative, but I do wish he had finished his term just to spite his detractors.
I don't understand the reference.
Thank you.
America ignored Pat Buchanan.
He never got over it, hence his comments.
Ah yes, we here this often from the "Al Davis's" of the Pubbie Party.
Hooray for our team! We get to preside over of the final diminution of the Constitution and the collapse of the Republic!
>>Conservativism is still alive. You just have to go to the Libertarian or Constitution parties to find it. It's dead in the republican party.<<
the word "conservative" has been hijacked much like the word "liberal" was... people doen't even seem to know what it USED to mean.
while i don't agree true conservativism is dead within the Republican party - it definitly is unwanted by the moderates. the new moderate Republicans either want conservatives to STFU and not vote at all... or settle for the lesser of two evils and vote (and then STFU).
and Libertarians are not conservatives.... but i agree the Contitutional Party seems to be - mostly.
It's actually the dems who are fracturing all over the place.
You say:
So I completely understand pessimism on the gay marriage/civil unions front if one believes, as I do, that the Sup Court will eventually impose them and the GOP/Congress/President will do nothing about it; but I don't understand implying, as Buchanan seems to do here, that the pro-traditional marriage side has lost majority support of the people, because that clearly is not the case as of now.
Pat said:
"We say we won a great victory by defeating gay marriage in 11 state-ballot referenda in November," he says. "But I think in the long run, that will be seen as a victory in defense of a citadel that eventually fell."
If there is a difference your conclusion and Pat's, may I say it is wafer thin?
I believe the following section puts a fine point on his so-called pessimism:
"I can't say we won the cultural war, and it's more likely we lost it."
The evidence?
He says it was all over the tube, in prime time, at last year's Republican National Convention, which featured California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, New York Gov. George E. Pataki and former New York Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani, all social liberals.
"They are indifferent to those moral issues because they see them — and correctly — as no longer popular, no longer the majority positions that they used to be," he says. "They say, 'Let's put those off the table and focus on the issues where we still have a majority —
And indeed sir, where were the conservatives at the Republican convention?
"Conservative left is an oxymoron.
No its just moronic... they do exist."
I'm afraid you're confusing conservative with Republican
There are left leaning republicans but cannot be left leaning conservatives
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