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To: Aetius
I'm puzzled.

You say:
So I completely understand pessimism on the gay marriage/civil unions front if one believes, as I do, that the Sup Court will eventually impose them and the GOP/Congress/President will do nothing about it; but I don't understand implying, as Buchanan seems to do here, that the pro-traditional marriage side has lost majority support of the people, because that clearly is not the case as of now.

Pat said:
"We say we won a great victory by defeating gay marriage in 11 state-ballot referenda in November," he says. "But I think in the long run, that will be seen as a victory in defense of a citadel that eventually fell."

If there is a difference your conclusion and Pat's, may I say it is wafer thin?

I believe the following section puts a fine point on his so-called pessimism:
"I can't say we won the cultural war, and it's more likely we lost it."

The evidence?
He says it was all over the tube, in prime time, at last year's Republican National Convention, which featured California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, New York Gov. George E. Pataki and former New York Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani, all social liberals.

"They are indifferent to those moral issues because they see them — and correctly — as no longer popular, no longer the majority positions that they used to be," he says. "They say, 'Let's put those off the table and focus on the issues where we still have a majority —

And indeed sir, where were the conservatives at the Republican convention?

99 posted on 05/17/2005 9:18:52 AM PDT by iconoclast (Conservative, not partisan.)
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To: iconoclast

The convention reflected at least two things; (1) The desire of the GOP to compete with the Dems for celebrity/star power, and (2) The desperate desire of the GOP to have the mainstream media say nice things about them.

On the one hand I understand it, as the mainstream media probably still has pull with a lot of those puzzling 'undecided moderates' we hear so much about every election. But on the other, its is regrettable because by shying away from showcasing more genuine conservatives it lends credence to the Left/Dem/media campaign to paint them as nuts, when in fact they hold views shared by most Americans on most social and cultural issues.

My only point about Buchanan was what seemed to be a contradiction on his part, where he spoke of the overwhelming manifestations of public opinion with regards to the 11 (13 total last year) successful popular rejections of gay marriage (and in most cases civil unions as well) last year, and then he turned around and spoke of how the showcasing of Giuliani, Schwarzenegger, and Pataki shows that we no longer have majority public opinion no our side on social and cultural issue. It was probably just a case of how the piece was edited for print, but it just struck me as a bit odd.

I guess what I'm saying is that even if you expect defeat at the hands of the judiciary and a spineless GOP on marriage, as I do, that doesn't mean we've lost the people. Of course if you can't use the popular will, its useless, but there is a tiny bit of hope w/in me that thinks all is not lost on this issue.


145 posted on 05/17/2005 12:19:11 PM PDT by Aetius
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