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U.S. needs replacement for current Humvee
United Press International ^ | May 06, 2005 | Pamela Hess

Posted on 05/06/2005 12:17:38 AM PDT by kingattax

Washington, DC, May. 5 (UPI) -- The U.S. military needs a new class of tactical vehicles specifically designed to withstand large roadside and car bombs, military officials told Congress Thursday.

As the insurgency has matured in Iraq, so has its ability to piece together extremely powerful bombs that no amount of additional armor plating can stop without overtaxing the standard chassis, officials told the House Armed Services Committee. Humvees have been loaded with as much armor as they can carry.

"We are at the 98-percent point. We can't put any more armor on these things," said Marine Brig. Gen. William Catto, director of Marine Corps Systems Command, in testimony to the House Armed Services Committee. "My opinion is we are going to have to design a new class of vehicle from the wheels up."

About 70 percent of the injuries and deaths to U.S. military personnel in Iraq are the result of improvised explosive devices, according to Lt. Gen. James Conway, the director of operations.

But just adding armor to vehicles and troops can actually hinder them on their mission.

"Eventually you get to the point where the lack of observation (from too much armor) has the opposite effect," said Lt. Gen. James Mattis, commander of Marine Corps Combat Development Command. Troops on the road find more than half of IEDs before they explode, primarily though keeping sharp watch and using high-powered sniper scopes to check suspicious bundles.

The Army has begun building a new Humvee -- the 1151 model -- to find the balance between added armor and performance. That tactical vehicle will build armor into the chassis and base plate, leaving off the armored doors and some steel plating. The doors can be applied when the vehicle moves into a dangerous deployment, like Baghdad.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: cary; humvee; iraq; miltech; usmilitary
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1 posted on 05/06/2005 12:17:38 AM PDT by kingattax
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To: kingattax

As far as military procurement is concerned, we just GOT the darn things...and now they have to be replaced????

And with what??? Better yet, how much is THIS gonna cost us?

Don't get me wrong...I want our troops to get the best possible equipment to do the job. Even so, isn't there SOME way we can save some money?


2 posted on 05/06/2005 12:21:09 AM PDT by hoagy62 (Revolution is now the ONLY option.)
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To: hoagy62
Even so, isn't there SOME way we can save some money?

Kill more enemy combatants.

3 posted on 05/06/2005 12:22:49 AM PDT by Jeff Chandler (.:: "Do not be afraid of Christ! He takes nothing away, and he gives you everything." ::.)
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To: Jeff Chandler
Kill more enemy combatants.

And by any and all means necessary. If it takes carpet bombing, artillry bombardment, sieges, nukes, MOABs, anything that kills more combatents and saves soldier's lives then by all means do it. Screw what the world thinks of us. Civilians will just have to get out of the way.

4 posted on 05/06/2005 12:26:06 AM PDT by Paul_Denton (Get the UN out of the US and US out of the UN!)
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To: Jeff Chandler

Okay...I can agree to that....


5 posted on 05/06/2005 12:26:36 AM PDT by hoagy62 (Revolution is now the ONLY option.)
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To: kingattax

The army is wasting time, money, and lives trying to make a glorified Jeep into a fighting vehicle.

Its nothing but a staff car people, it wasn't designed to fight. Its built on obsolete GM running gear and light construction.

This is what Stryker was made for. Stop sending Hummers and start making Strykers in mass.


6 posted on 05/06/2005 12:27:16 AM PDT by konaice
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To: konaice

7 posted on 05/06/2005 12:30:45 AM PDT by kingattax
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To: hoagy62

The HMMWV design dates back to the late 70s and entered production in the 80s. It's nowhere near state of the art. For example, the 6.5L turbodiesel in them is considerably less powerful than the versions available in civilian 2500/3500-class trucks. It was designed as a larger, more stable Jeep that could be used for more roles; medium-to-heavy combat vehicle was not one of them. Uparmoring the HMMWV was just a band-aid; ACAVs, Bradleys, and Strykers are what this mission really calls for.


8 posted on 05/06/2005 12:34:12 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: kingattax

The Hummer was never meant to be a tank.


9 posted on 05/06/2005 12:36:21 AM PDT by MistrX
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To: Spktyr
Miles are excessive for tracked vehicle OPTEMPO- except as a response force. Impractical for patrolling.

Stryker, LAV and new MP Armored Security Vehicle are performing well.


10 posted on 05/06/2005 12:49:41 AM PDT by xsrdx (Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas)
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To: kingattax
Well if yer gonna go ya may as well go to war with a wet bar !


11 posted on 05/06/2005 12:50:49 AM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. ©)
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To: Spktyr
>Bradleys, and Strykers are what this mission really calls >for.

Concur. The Israelis (and in a similar way the English in Northern Ireland) have had plenty of time to design, build test and select vehicles for use in environments such as this. No need to re-invent the wheel.

http://tinyurl.com/bfozc

http://www.jinsa.org/articles/articles.html/function/view/categoryid/1701/documentid/2774/history/3,2360,655,1701,2774

Now let's get to work.
12 posted on 05/06/2005 1:03:14 AM PDT by PzGr43
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To: xsrdx
I wonder how the ASV stands up against the ubiquitous RPG ?
it seems that next to IED's , the RPG is the single worst threat US Forces face on many fronts. The RPG has been around
for so long and it is still taking far too many names.
13 posted on 05/06/2005 1:04:13 AM PDT by injin
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To: kingattax; All
The best solution for the next generation of Hummers: M1117/ASV-150 Commando.


14 posted on 05/06/2005 1:58:22 AM PDT by Wiz
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To: kingattax

Strykers are OK, but they are large which will spoil the vehicle when only few attendants are operating the vehicle. Stryker is rather an armored taxi, transportation for troops. On the other hand, ASV-150 Commandos are smaller having 3 or 4 attendants designed for security missions. Meanwhile, these Commandos are sometimes called the mini-Strykers.


15 posted on 05/06/2005 2:02:44 AM PDT by Wiz
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To: xsrdx

You seem to understand what is needed for the military. :)


16 posted on 05/06/2005 2:04:56 AM PDT by Wiz
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To: injin
ASV-150 has the survivability against RPG-7 with the add on armor kit. It has equivalent armor of the Stryker. However, while it has a survivability against RPG-7, it is another story for the ASV-150 to continue running after the RPG-7 hits the vehicle. I wish there was the slat armor for ASV-150. Could that make it continue to operate with RPG-7 striking the vehicle? I have heard about a story that General Dynamics were pessimistic about building Strykers for the great capabilities of ASV-150.
17 posted on 05/06/2005 2:09:48 AM PDT by Wiz
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To: kingattax

18 posted on 05/06/2005 2:50:46 AM PDT by ChiefKujo
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To: hoagy62

And with what???

The Humvee is a replacement for the little Jeep. A vehicle that was used for transportation, not as a tank. Today the Humvee is used as an armored vehicle.


19 posted on 05/06/2005 4:25:06 AM PDT by chainsaw
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To: kingattax
Alternatively


20 posted on 05/06/2005 4:35:15 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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