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Newfound Dinosaur a Transitional Creature
Las Vegas Sun (AP) ^ | May 04, 2005 | Malcolm Ritter

Posted on 05/04/2005 12:32:23 PM PDT by MeanWestTexan

Caught in the act of evolution, the odd-looking, feathered dinosaur was becoming more vegetarian, moving away from its meat-eating ancestors.

It had the built-for-speed legs of meat-eaters, but was developing the bigger belly of plant-eaters. It had already lost the serrated teeth needed for tearing flesh. Those were replaced with the smaller, duller vegetarian variety.

(Excerpt) Read more at lasvegassun.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: crevolist; dinosaurs; evolution; godsgravesglyphs; paleontology; transitionalfossil
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To: MeanWestTexan

The "one point" was simply a question as to whether it is possible that "details" makes the species (especially considering that such details vary so widly between races of the same species.)


201 posted on 05/04/2005 4:05:07 PM PDT by MacDorcha (Where Rush dares not tread, there are the Freepers!)
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To: MeanWestTexan
By the way, the article notes that all the teeth were grinders but the creatures pelvis showed only slight widening. How long you figure it takes to transition to all grinders and how much larger must the creatures gut expand to suck the nutrients out of foliage to survive at that size? This sounds all backwards to me. Predator to prey. All choppers to all grinders with little change in gut capacity. Carnivore to herbivore.

If you told me the creature had a mixture of grinders and choppers I'd be more inclined to think that it was transitioning from something to something because I could understand an advantage. As is, I don't see it. But then again, neither did anybody else.

202 posted on 05/04/2005 4:07:40 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: MeanWestTexan

"I think that difficult-to-read statement was a reminder to keep one's mind open when reading the scriptures to what is going on around you. "

Agreed! More should think like that, and then I think real progress could be made in education and philosophies.


203 posted on 05/04/2005 4:08:50 PM PDT by MacDorcha (Where Rush dares not tread, there are the Freepers!)
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To: orionblamblam

I'm not necessarily a creationist, but I'm intellectually secure enough not to accept something merely because it's the majority view. Scientific progress is generally made by those who question current paradigms, not by those who accept them without question and mock anyone who puts forward new ideas.


204 posted on 05/04/2005 4:08:51 PM PDT by Steve_Seattle
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To: dread78645

Atkins-Vegan place mark


205 posted on 05/04/2005 4:09:42 PM PDT by dread78645 (Sarcasm tags are for wusses.)
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To: MeanWestTexan
But specialization, while dangerous if conditions changes (take the poor Cheetah, for example) has its advantages.

What advantage is gained by being prey rather than predator? Herbivore rather than omnivore? A mouth full of grinders with the gut of a carnivore?

206 posted on 05/04/2005 4:10:02 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: MacDorcha

"The "one point" was simply a question as to whether it is possible that "details" makes the species (especially considering that such details vary so widly between races of the same species.)"

I really don't know the answer to that, and you'd have to ask a specialist.

I'm a petroleum geologist and engineer, and my experience with fossils of anything bigger than a snail is limited to things I picked up because the topic is interesting, and not an actual course of study.


207 posted on 05/04/2005 4:13:01 PM PDT by MeanWestTexan
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To: Steve_Seattle
not by those who accept them without question and mock anyone who puts forward new ideas.

How about those who run around with their fingers in their ears shouting 'NAH NAH NAH NAH NAH' when presented with evidence that their old ideas are flat wrong?

Why is it so hard to say the earth is 6000 years old. But God created it old as a test of faith. Abracadabra, your faith is fine and you don't have to attack every science from geology to physics to prove your faith is actually a scientific theory.

208 posted on 05/04/2005 4:14:13 PM PDT by Dinsdale
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To: MeanWestTexan

" my experience with fossils of anything bigger than a snail is limited to things I picked up because the topic is interesting, and not an actual course of study."

Exactly why I pinged my ID list :) it was intersting.

I'm not trying to bully you. Please don't think of me as if I am. Like you, I am merely here for questions.

Fregards
-Mac


209 posted on 05/04/2005 4:16:16 PM PDT by MacDorcha (Where Rush dares not tread, there are the Freepers!)
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To: jwalsh07

"What advantage is gained by being prey rather than predator?

Depends if there is anything to hunt something of your size. While not exactly huge, it would take a T-rex or some substantial to hunt these guys.

Herbivore rather than omnivore? Chopper vs. grinders?

You're an omnivoire. Pretend your a cow. Go try to eat some grass with your nice sharp front teeth. NO HANDS, mind you.


210 posted on 05/04/2005 4:17:37 PM PDT by MeanWestTexan
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To: Dimensio
Dr. Hovind's prize is reserved for those who "prove" to the satisfaction of a panel of people who already agree with Hovind a number of claims that evolution does not make. Hovind's "challenge" is patent dishonesty.

Dr. Dino-the-Huckster is broke and under another investigation by the IRS, the state of Florida, and Escambia County for fraud, tax evasion, and being an unrepentant, fraudulent dumbass. His "reward" is on its way.

211 posted on 05/04/2005 4:23:40 PM PDT by balrog666 (A myth by any other name is still inane.)
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To: MacDorcha
So how do we determine that they were related to another species by sight alone? Wouldn't that be like calling a Giant Panda a "bear"?

With very sketchy evidence, it's possible to make a classification error. This has happened, but it's not all that common. Such things get corrected as more evidence is uncovered. DNA evidence, if available, is very good for clearing up confusing cases. I can't recall hearing about anything more "serious" than a genus reclassification. These are relatively trivial issues (like shuffling a specimen from one group of spiders to another), and it's nothing that could give any comfort to creationists. Perhaps one of our experts will be able to shed more light on this subject.

212 posted on 05/04/2005 4:26:02 PM PDT by PatrickHenry (<-- Click on my name. The List-O-Links for evolution threads is at my freeper homepage.)
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To: Dimensio
Dataman never apologized for accusing me of lying with the link.

Being a sh!t-for-brains Creationist means never having to say you are sorry.

213 posted on 05/04/2005 4:28:20 PM PDT by balrog666 (A myth by any other name is still inane.)
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To: Junior

Stalin's being kicked out of the seminary for declaring Darwin's theory as the answer to creation occurred decades before Lysenko published his theory.


214 posted on 05/04/2005 4:28:25 PM PDT by FormerLib (Kosova: "land stolen from Serbs and given to terrorist killers in a futile attempt to appease them.")
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To: Steve_Seattle

> Scientific progress is generally made by those who question current paradigms, not by those who accept them without question and mock anyone who puts forward new ideas.

Thus spake Charles Darwin. Guess what: he challenged the existing paradigm, the evidence backed him up, and the previous world-view was shown to be laughable. And so far, nothing has come along that even comes close to challenging evolutionary theory as an explanation. No other notions even have a scrap of evidence to back them up.

It is not enough to simply say "I doubt." You should have some sort of servicable alternate theory. And dredging up old and discreditted notions that do not even rate as creditable hypothesis is just lazy... and makes one a valid target for pointing and mocking and laughing.


215 posted on 05/04/2005 4:29:43 PM PDT by orionblamblam ("You're the poster boy for what ID would turn out if it were taught in our schools." VadeRetro)
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To: MeanWestTexan
You're an omnivoire.

Au contraire, I'm a red blooded, blue collared American. No French, nowhere.

216 posted on 05/04/2005 4:30:34 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: Dimensio
I've dealt with such thick-skulled creationists. It's frightening that there are people that stupid out there.

It tells us that intelligence is not necessarily a naturally selected mutation. Too bad.

217 posted on 05/04/2005 4:31:12 PM PDT by balrog666 (A myth by any other name is still inane.)
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To: Dimensio
I suspect that my previous post will be pulled. Dataman doesn't like it when people point out his past lies; he did that once before when I exposed an incident where he behaved in a particularly dishonest fashion.

Have you ever seen him behave otherwise?

218 posted on 05/04/2005 4:33:23 PM PDT by balrog666 (A myth by any other name is still inane.)
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To: hosepipe
I make everything I say up.

Okay, thanks for admitting that you were lying when you claimed that fakes were only exposed by scientists who don't accept evolution. Such refreshing honesty about dishonesty is so rare from the creationist side.
219 posted on 05/04/2005 4:33:55 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: MeanWestTexan

Your cattle have hooves like these??????


220 posted on 05/04/2005 4:34:10 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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