Posted on 04/25/2005 7:59:46 AM PDT by NotchJohnson
Cites concerns about Roman Catholics, other faiths
KEN GARFIELD Staff Writer
One of Charlotte's best-known churches has withdrawn support for a food pantry that serves the needy because the pantry works with Roman Catholics.
Central Church of God explained its decision in a letter March 1 from minister of evangelism Shannon Burton to Loaves & Fishes in Charlotte: "As a Christian church, we feel it is our responsibility to follow closely the (principles) and commands of Scripture. To do this best, we feel we should abstain from any ministry that partners with or promotes Catholicism, or for that matter, any other denomination promoting a works-based salvation."
Loaves & Fishes isn't the only ministry with which the Sardis Road mega-church has cut ties, and Catholics have not been the only reason they've given.
The Rev. Tony Marciano, executive director of Charlotte Rescue Mission, said Burton told him the church could no longer support the agency after it allowed three Muslim students from UNC Charlotte to help serve a meal at the uptown ministry in November. Founded in 1938 by eight businessmen, including Charlotte-born evangelist Billy Graham's father, Charlotte Rescue Mission offers Christ-centered residential care for people fighting drugs and alcohol.
Doug Hartjes, director of development for Crisis Assistance Ministry in Charlotte, said Central Church of God told them it will not provide financial support this year. Crisis Assistance provides emergency financial aid and other help to people. Hartjes said 200 congregations representing Christian, Jewish and other faiths donate money and volunteer time, as do people with no religious affiliation.
The church also ended funding for Love Inc., which provides services for the poor, elderly and disabled in Mecklenburg County.
The decision by Central Church of God isn't likely to cripple the ministries. Loaves & Fishes executive director Beverly Howard said the church has donated a total of $36,000 the past 11 years, plus volunteers and food. Marciano said the church gave Charlotte Rescue Mission $5,500 in 2004 -- a small part of the mission's annual budget of $3 million. Hartjes declined comment, citing the policy of honoring the privacy of donors.
But whatever its practical impact, the Central Church decision is likely to provoke debate over ecumenical cooperation, or the lack of it, in a city that prides itself on its many vibrant congregations -- and the notion that they generally get along.
Anna Burton, a spokesperson for Central Church of God and the minister's wife, said church leaders decline comment, letting the letter speak for itself. She said there was no animosity toward any of the organizations.
Howard said Loaves & Fishes receives support from 100 to 150 congregations each year, and that Central Church of God is the only one to pull out over the food pantry's partnership with other congregations. Jewish and Muslim congregations help, as do 10 to 15 Catholic parishes to which Central objected.
"It absolutely did shock us," Howard said. "We had no idea Central Church felt that way about ecumenical ministry."
Howard said Loaves & Fishes last year gave away a week's worth of food to 70,000 recipients. She said that's a mission all people should embrace.
The Roman Catholic Diocese of Charlotte released a statement to the Observer Friday, saying, "This apparent attempt to divide the faith community is most unfortunate."
The statement sought to explain the Catholic position on what it means to be saved:
"As Catholics we firmly believe that Salvation for the world came through the suffering, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Through his Passion, Jesus Christ has already completed the work of salvation. Jesus calls us to love one another and that love must demonstrate itself in good works. Engaging in good works is putting your faith into action. We earnestly hope that we can sit down with fellow Christians at the Central Church of God and clarify our mutual understanding of God's word as put forth in the Scriptures."
The Rev. Conrad Hoover of St. Ann Catholic Church in Charlotte stressed that you are not saved solely by good works.
"Catholics believe it is indeed by faith in Jesus Christ," Hoover said. "We really are biblically grounded."
With some 6,000 members -- and often more than that packing Sunday morning services -- Central Church of God on Sardis Road is known for its huge crowds and electrifying sermons by the Rev. Loran Livingston. Crowds are so big at one of the nation's largest Church of God congregations that buses drive people to worship from the parking lot at Providence Day School and Charlotte Country Day.
In the letter to Loaves & Fishes, obtained by the Observer, Central's Burton tried to end on a positive note:
"I hope and pray you receive this as intended -- in love," Burton wrote. "Thank you in advance for your understanding in this matter, and if you should have any questions, feel free to give me a call."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reach Ken Garfield at (704) 358-5094.
St Thomas Aquinas has written that avoiding violence when an innocent life is at risk is a grave sin. I agree with St Thomas.
Depends on which definition of cult you are using. Being a member of the 4th largest church in the United States is, to me, a good thing. Being of service to the Lord is even better.
Let me know, and I will be happy to share the fullness of the Gospel with you.
Slight difference here. We're talking about the Son of God versus a group 2000 years ago that clearly has had unbelievers in their midst.
Jesus did so in order that people could witness the Kingdom of God in the flesh and to share the word of life with them
Well yes, but in most ecumenical ministries, they're not sharing the word of life are they? They may be able to slip in a God loves you but that's not Christianity either is it? If you have a Muslim and Baptist person serving in the line, how are you spreading the word of life? If the Baptist mentions Christ, the Muslim mentions Allah. How is that spreading God's word? Only one can be right but not both.
Please advise of one commandment that the Holy Spirit gave throughout Scripture? And, if He did, where would it contradict those of Jesus?
Well II Corinthians 6:14 for one. Do you not believe that those that wrote the Word were divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit? And it doesn't contradict Christ. However, it does provide a warning on who we should join with, as a church and as separate people.
It sounds to me as if you're trying to justify your actions (or inactions) by claiming that the Holy Spirit "commanded" you to do or not to do something. Is that accurate?
Not trying to justify anything. I give accordingly as I feel the Lord leads me to, as a cheerful giver. However as an example only, I cannot in good conscience nor as a Christian say give a donation for the tsunami victims to an organization that is run by homosexuals can I? Why not? They may be helping but is Christ's message of salvation spread by my donations to them? Or to an organization that witnesses of Christ's love by deed and word when helping the victims?
The word of Christ is best shared when those who represent Christ is present helping to pull the load. In doing so, as I stated earlier, that person or organization who claims Christ as their motivation, can flesh it out before them
Yes they can. But say a Muslim is on the front line. Please do not misunderstand and think I have something against Muslims. They have a right to believe as they wish. But as a follower of Christ, would I want someone to listen to that message while being ministered to? By my beliefs, how am I helping to spread God's word or love if that occurs?
To pull away, as this organization did, is to declare to all that we are superior and exclusive, which is not representative of Christ or His Body.
I don't believe it is. If the church had quit donations, then yes I could see that. However to pull away as they did is just to state, they do not believe that one of the organization main goals is to witness the love of Christ while helping those in need. Yes, Christ tells us to feed those who are hungry, shelter those in need, but should we not be able to mention the love of Christ for fear of upsetting religions we believe are false, what exactly have we accomplished?
Finally, I'm convinced that the Lord is more concerned that a cup of cold water is actually given to those in need of such than with the fact that we have to check with our standard of beliefs as to whether or not to do good.
You're missing the point. Yes He is concerned with that first and foremost. If the church has not turned their donations elsewhere to an organization they feel fits more with their beliefs, then yes they are wrong. However, if the church has done this, then they are only stating they cannot be yoked to an organization that consists of nonbelievers as well. And surely there is nothing anywhere in the word of God that would disagree with that.
You said If you have to ask, is it really free? What an interesting distinction some Protestants make between what is and is not a "work.
"15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Yea, we Protestants are a strange bunch...We believe that if someone offers you a Free Gift, that's means it's Free...Calling out, "Hey, I'll take one of those free Salvation Packages doesn't take any work at all...
Nice try, but, no cigar...
But you don't know why it's free, do you...I'll tell you...Because there is nothing, absolutely nothing you can do to qualify for God's Holy Salvation...If it wasn't given freely, you nor I could qualify...
Prota takes things completely out of context. I merely said that I prayed that all Protestants and Catholics would find their way to the Lord. I believe that you may have some of the Gospel, but not all of it. I would be happy to share it with you offline.
"One of the ways people examine their beliefs is to have discourse with someone who doesn't share them. What would be the point of discussing things with only peole who share your viewpoint?"
Excellent point. I often have asked that question on partisan newsgroups, this one included. It's hard to sharpen debate skills when everyone holds the same view without question. When I was an atheist, I asked of Christians many questions. Now atheists ask me those questions, and often I am better prepared to answer them, and sometimes I share their questions. If no one asks them, you never have reason to find the knowledge. As far as literal creationism, I am still not sold on it, so when I disagree with Christians who are literalists on evolution/adaptation or the young earth, I sometimes get answers and understanding through debate, and other times I get called nasty names. For instance, an atheist (or myself) will ask about the "editing" of the bible and the other scriptures not included in it. A Christian MUST have the answer. When a Christian questions your faith because you have intellectual differences, it's the same as a Christian calling an Atheist or a Muslim names when they could instead impart knowledge. That knowledge can't be imparted if the Christian is offended by questions and examinations of modern doctrinal interpretation.
Instead of bickering and shunning those who are unorthodox (or cantankerous), Christians should ask EACH OTHER these questions without fear of disapproval from the "church," because otherwise intelligent, thinking people will reject the gospel.
To: Protagoras
Yes, I pray often for all you protestants and catholics. I pray that someday you can come to Christ.
100 posted on 04/25/2005 11:50:44 AM CDT by Old Mountain man (Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice!)
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Did I misread the article? It sounded like people (the 3 Muslims and others) were just helping to serve the meal - not doing any preaching.
Our primary responsibility as Christians is not feeding the hungry or taking care of the poor. When Jesus fed the multitudes it was because he was SHARING THE GOSPEL with them and they were hungry while listening to him. He didn't just feed people who had no interest in the Kingdom message. That is not to say he would not help a hungry or needy individual that he came across, of course he would (the Good Samaritan), that is love. But that's not what he spent the majority of his time doing and that is not what he put the focus on.
When Jesus healed the sick or raised the dead, it was a foreshadowing of what would happen under his kingdom (Rev. 21:3,4). Yes, it came from his compassion and goodness, but his purpose while on earth was to spread the good news. And as followers of Christ, that is our primary mission as well. Matthew 24:14, Matthew 28:19,20 and many other scriptures make it clear that our primary responsibility as Christians is to share the good news of the kingdom. We will not be able to feed all the hungry, heal all the sick, raise any dead, or care for all of the poor, in fact, they'd always be with us in this system of things. As long as Satan rules the world, that's how it will be.
But Satan will NOT be ruling this world for much longer, and sharing the hope of a new system under Christ's rulership is eminently more important a mission. It's what Christ did when he was on earth, it is what he instructed his followers to do, and it is what the early Christians spent most of their time doing. Not founding charitable missions, but spreading the gospel. Giving people TRUE hope and a way to really end all suffering. That is the loving thing, that's what Christ commanded.
You mentioned Jehovah's Witnesses. These are some of the nicest, honest, most giving people you will ever come across. They'll help someone in need and that is a silent witness in and of itself, but what people are most in need of is the Kingdom message and salvation.
No thanks, I already have the correct version. It comes out of the bible, unadulterated or ADDED to in any way.
Being a member of the 4th largest church in the United States
You admitted to being in a cult. Some cults are large.
"That knowledge can't be imparted if the Christian is offended by questions and examinations of modern doctrinal interpretation.
Instead of bickering and shunning those who are unorthodox (or cantankerous), Christians should ask EACH OTHER these questions without fear of disapproval from the "church," because otherwise intelligent, thinking people will reject the gospel."
They'd still have Left Behind. ;)
And you admitted to being obnoxious.
"So when Jesus fed the 5,000 he would have said, Well if you are from Central Church of God in Charlotte, we will not feed you?"
No, nor did he enlist aid from the Jews, Canaanites and Romans. Like the Church we are discussing here, he went his own way and kept his message pure and undiluted by other theologies.
"They'd still have Left Behind. ;)"
Uffda! Don't get my devout Lutheran mother-in-law off on the subject of the "Left Behind" series. She'll explain the whole thing to you in no uncertain terms, and not very nicely. I somehow don't think that Lutherans have that preterist, dispensationalist view of things. In fact, I'm sure of it.
I guess if Christ was serving meals there they would have pulled out because He is Jewish.
What a bunch of nuts.
Don't let the jerk get you down. My best advice is to ignore him.
No I didn't. But I imagine it would be obnoxious to a person who slandered so many people if someone kept reposting his words.
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