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Big church halts support of ministries
Charlotte Observer ^ | 4/24/05 | Ken Garfield

Posted on 04/25/2005 7:59:46 AM PDT by NotchJohnson

Cites concerns about Roman Catholics, other faiths

KEN GARFIELD Staff Writer

One of Charlotte's best-known churches has withdrawn support for a food pantry that serves the needy because the pantry works with Roman Catholics.

Central Church of God explained its decision in a letter March 1 from minister of evangelism Shannon Burton to Loaves & Fishes in Charlotte: "As a Christian church, we feel it is our responsibility to follow closely the (principles) and commands of Scripture. To do this best, we feel we should abstain from any ministry that partners with or promotes Catholicism, or for that matter, any other denomination promoting a works-based salvation."

Loaves & Fishes isn't the only ministry with which the Sardis Road mega-church has cut ties, and Catholics have not been the only reason they've given.

The Rev. Tony Marciano, executive director of Charlotte Rescue Mission, said Burton told him the church could no longer support the agency after it allowed three Muslim students from UNC Charlotte to help serve a meal at the uptown ministry in November. Founded in 1938 by eight businessmen, including Charlotte-born evangelist Billy Graham's father, Charlotte Rescue Mission offers Christ-centered residential care for people fighting drugs and alcohol.

Doug Hartjes, director of development for Crisis Assistance Ministry in Charlotte, said Central Church of God told them it will not provide financial support this year. Crisis Assistance provides emergency financial aid and other help to people. Hartjes said 200 congregations representing Christian, Jewish and other faiths donate money and volunteer time, as do people with no religious affiliation.

The church also ended funding for Love Inc., which provides services for the poor, elderly and disabled in Mecklenburg County.

The decision by Central Church of God isn't likely to cripple the ministries. Loaves & Fishes executive director Beverly Howard said the church has donated a total of $36,000 the past 11 years, plus volunteers and food. Marciano said the church gave Charlotte Rescue Mission $5,500 in 2004 -- a small part of the mission's annual budget of $3 million. Hartjes declined comment, citing the policy of honoring the privacy of donors.

But whatever its practical impact, the Central Church decision is likely to provoke debate over ecumenical cooperation, or the lack of it, in a city that prides itself on its many vibrant congregations -- and the notion that they generally get along.

Anna Burton, a spokesperson for Central Church of God and the minister's wife, said church leaders decline comment, letting the letter speak for itself. She said there was no animosity toward any of the organizations.

Howard said Loaves & Fishes receives support from 100 to 150 congregations each year, and that Central Church of God is the only one to pull out over the food pantry's partnership with other congregations. Jewish and Muslim congregations help, as do 10 to 15 Catholic parishes to which Central objected.

"It absolutely did shock us," Howard said. "We had no idea Central Church felt that way about ecumenical ministry."

Howard said Loaves & Fishes last year gave away a week's worth of food to 70,000 recipients. She said that's a mission all people should embrace.

The Roman Catholic Diocese of Charlotte released a statement to the Observer Friday, saying, "This apparent attempt to divide the faith community is most unfortunate."

The statement sought to explain the Catholic position on what it means to be saved:

"As Catholics we firmly believe that Salvation for the world came through the suffering, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Through his Passion, Jesus Christ has already completed the work of salvation. Jesus calls us to love one another and that love must demonstrate itself in good works. Engaging in good works is putting your faith into action. We earnestly hope that we can sit down with fellow Christians at the Central Church of God and clarify our mutual understanding of God's word as put forth in the Scriptures."

The Rev. Conrad Hoover of St. Ann Catholic Church in Charlotte stressed that you are not saved solely by good works.

"Catholics believe it is indeed by faith in Jesus Christ," Hoover said. "We really are biblically grounded."

With some 6,000 members -- and often more than that packing Sunday morning services -- Central Church of God on Sardis Road is known for its huge crowds and electrifying sermons by the Rev. Loran Livingston. Crowds are so big at one of the nation's largest Church of God congregations that buses drive people to worship from the parking lot at Providence Day School and Charlotte Country Day.

In the letter to Loaves & Fishes, obtained by the Observer, Central's Burton tried to end on a positive note:

"I hope and pray you receive this as intended -- in love," Burton wrote. "Thank you in advance for your understanding in this matter, and if you should have any questions, feel free to give me a call."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reach Ken Garfield at (704) 358-5094.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Philosophy; US: North Carolina
KEYWORDS: beverlyhoward; catholic; catholicchurch; catholicphobia; catolic; charity; charlotte; churchofgod; crazies; loonies; loranlivingston; ministry; muslimstudents; nutjobs; shannonburton; wackos; waroncatholics
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To: Peanut Gallery

I'm going to quote that story here, in full, since it makes it clear that the church didn't do this thing. It was an underling...an employee...who did it. The real leadership has reversed most of that employee's mistake. NOTE: To see the link to this story follow back in the thread.



Charitable dispute

Central Church of God’s struggle with funding the Charlotte Rescue Mission draws attention to the complexity of charitable giving for Christians

By: Jamie Dean

Charlotte--- During Sunday services at Central Church of God on March 20, Pastor Loran Livingston told his 6,000-plus member congregation that the church leadership had blundered. A story in the “Charlotte Observer” the day before had revealed that the church had stopped supporting three local charities because the groups accepted help from Catholics. According to the story, Central Church had also stopped supporting the Charlotte Rescue Mission because the Christian-based drug rehabilitation program had allowed three Muslims to help serve a meal to residents.

One week later, it appears that story is at least partially true. While Central Church did stop funding the Charlotte Rescue Mission, its reasons remain unclear.

Livingston apologized on March 20 for the church’s decision to stop supporting the charities that accepted help from Roman Catholics, saying Central Church should be willing to work with Catholics, and that the decision “made us look like we are better than everyone else.” The pastor said the church would partially reverse its decision and continue supporting Loaves & Fishes and Love INC, and that it would reconsider plans to cut ties with Crisis Assistance Ministry.

But the church would not reverse its decision to halt support of the Charlotte Rescue Mission, Livingston said. The “Observer” reported that the pastor cited “in part the involvement of three Muslim students who served a meal there.”

Central Church’s decision to persist in cutting off only the Charlotte Rescue Mission raised a significant question: If the Muslim students were the reason for dropping the mission’s support, why continue supporting Loaves & Fishes, and why consider reinstating Crisis Assistance Ministry? Both groups say they accept money and volunteers from Jewish and Muslim congregations, and the secular Crisis Assistance Ministry says it also accepts help from people with no religious affiliation at all.

Central Church of God spokeswoman Anna Burton told the “Charlotte World” that Muslim involvement played no role in the decision to cut the Charlotte Rescue Mission’s funding, and said the church didn’t know about Muslim involvement until “we read it in the paper this week…That’s not the reason we stopped supporting them,” she said.

But Burton would offer no further reasons for the elimination of funds. “We really have no further comment at this time,” she said. When asked if she would like to clarify her earlier comments that the church did not know about the Muslims at the rescue mission, and that it did not stop supporting the mission because of the Muslim students, Burton replied: “No. We really don’t think it will help at this point.”

Rev. Tony Marciano, executive director of the Charlotte Rescue Mission, told the “Charlotte World” that Anna Burton’s husband, Shannon Burton, who is Central Church’s minister of evangelism, called him two days before Thanksgiving and said the church knew about the Muslim students who had served a meal after taking a drop-in tour of the mission. “They [Central Church] said ‘we can’t have this happen,’ in so many words,” Marciano said. Marciano said when he told the church he couldn’t guarantee that it wouldn’t happen again, the church told him it would no longer support the mission.

Marciano said Burton offered no other reason for the church’s withdrawal of its support, and that the November conversation was the last time he had heard from the church.

The “Observer” story supports Marciano’s account. The newspaper’s religion writer said Livingston himself cited the Muslim students as part of the church’s rationale for cutting the mission’s support.

The story’s confusing details highlight the complexities of charitable giving for Christians and Christian churches, and raise questions about how to exercise good stewardship and discernment.

Fred Marsh is the associate coordinator for the Presbyterian Church in America’s (PCA) Mission to North America. The home mission agency coordinates urban and mercy ministries for the conservative denomination. Marsh said that there is “no easy or universal answer” for determining how to best allocate donations, but that a church should start by examining the purpose, core commitments, and theology of any organization it is considering supporting.

“I would focus on the purpose of the ministry more than on who else is giving to it,” he said.

According to its website, the purpose of the Charlotte Rescue Mission is to “minister the Good News of Christianity to individuals caught in the cycles of poverty, hopelessness and chemical addiction by meeting their spiritual, physical, emotional, social and vocational needs.” (4/5/2005)


161 posted on 04/25/2005 10:56:10 AM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: MineralMan

Dear Mineral Man, I have lost about 70% of my hearing acuity in the last 10 years or so, and I find it has its advantages: I do not hear insults, slights and put-downs. (Can't seem to hear my two adolescent boys hassling with each other, either!)

I suggest you tune-out people's insults, or just ignore them: you get to smile a lot more, and if it aggravates the people who are trying to bait you---- well, let them deal with it.

I am glad you decided to make a donation to that charity that was dumped by --- was it the Church of Christ Without Christ? ("Where the blind don't see, the lame don't walk, and what's dead stays that way" -- Flannery O'Connor.)

I might toss them a buck myself. Then I'm going to curl up with my New Testament and read Matthew 25. I love the fact that --- have you ever noticed? --- both the saved AND the unsaved are apparently quite surprised about it.

Hoping you have the happiest of surprises,

Mrs. Don-o


162 posted on 04/25/2005 10:56:20 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (/// Cuncta stricte, Benedicte! /// -\\\ Keep it strict, Benedict! \\\)
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To: Protagoras

"Why on earth would I discuss the bible with someone who rejects it? "


Would you discuss the New Testament with a Jew? They give it about as much credibility as MineralMan does, admitting to its Wisdom while denying the devinity of Christ.

Just curious if your discusson of Bible topics is limited only to those of your own faith. If so, you're missing some interesting viewpoints. One's faith alone doesn't distort or change the message of the New Testament, btw, nor the lessons contained therein.


163 posted on 04/25/2005 10:57:31 AM PDT by Blzbba ("Under every stone lurks a politician. " Aristophanes, 410 BC)
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To: Old Mountain man
Well, are you going to tell me that if you were in a horrible storm, everything was lost and a Mormon walked by and offered you food and drink, you would not take it?

Why would I tell you that? How long did it take you to make up that question and why would you ask it of me?

Mormons are nice people as far as I know. Lot's of people in cults are.

164 posted on 04/25/2005 10:57:45 AM PDT by Protagoras (Christ is risen.)
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To: Old Mountain man

Yes? So? Be a cheerful giver? And continue in good works? Because the church chooses not to associate or yoke itself with unbelievers doesn't change anything from the verses you provided. It doesn't say anywhere that the church will no longer provide ministries for the poor and sick does it? Those verses apply just as well when taken into context with II Cor 6:14. Or should I not associate that the same Holy Spirit was speaking at both instances?


165 posted on 04/25/2005 10:57:55 AM PDT by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: Protagoras

Yeah, those Baptist cults are tough!


166 posted on 04/25/2005 10:59:33 AM PDT by Old Mountain man (Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice!)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
"(Can't seem to hear my two adolescent boys hassling with each other, either!) "

LOL. Losing your hearing is a terrible thing, but I guess there are some compensations.

167 posted on 04/25/2005 11:00:54 AM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: Iscool

Well, I thought that too, then I looked for a church website... Central Church of God, which boasts more than 6000 members does not have a website. I find that somewhat surprising.

After reading all the articles I could google about this event, I tend to think this church is treading water, and possibly on the edge of getting into legal trouble with all of this. Separation of church and state is one thing, discriminiation on the basis of religion is quite another.


168 posted on 04/25/2005 11:01:45 AM PDT by Peanut Gallery
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To: billbears

You see, you didn't follow my first instruction. Try again. Then give to who you will, help who you will.


169 posted on 04/25/2005 11:01:49 AM PDT by Old Mountain man (Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice!)
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To: Protagoras
"Some thirty years later, in the terse words of the psychologist, Albert Gorres, I found summarized the perceptions I was trying to articulate. The elaboration of these insights forms the heart of this address. Gorres shows that the feeling of guilt, the capacity to recognize guilt, belongs essentially to the spiritual make-up of man. This feeling of guilt disturbs the false calm of conscience and could be called conscience's complaint against my self- satisfied existence. It is as necessary for man as the physical pain which signifies disturbances of normal bodily functioning. Whoever is no longer capable of perceiving guilt is spiritually ill, a "living corpse, a dramatic character's mask," as Gorres says. "Monsters, among other brutes, are the ones without guilt feelings. Perhaps Hitler did not have any, or Himmler, or Stalin. Maybe Mafia bosses do not have any guilt feelings either, or maybe their remains are just well hidden in the cellar. Even aborted guilt feelings ... All men need guilt feelings."

- Pope Benedict XVI in early writings

170 posted on 04/25/2005 11:01:54 AM PDT by sageb1
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To: Protagoras

"Mormons are nice people as far as I know. Lot's of people in cults are."

Oh...nice dig at the LDS folks! You're really working to annoy people today, aren't you? You're not as subtle, though, as you might think you are.


171 posted on 04/25/2005 11:02:44 AM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: Protagoras
It was mostly for you.

The relativist argument that without revelation, the law is unknowable is something I once accepted as logical until I understood it isn't biblical. If something is true, it can be discovered with other methods.

I believe the concept that non Christians cannot know law is unbiblical. Apparently it is in their hearts too. They have the knowledge and conscience to know that they fall short of the law.

By understanding the law exists and that they fall short of it, they end up guilty and in need of a savior.
172 posted on 04/25/2005 11:03:00 AM PDT by Raycpa
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To: Knitting A Conundrum

Romans 14 (New International Version)

Romans 14

1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.

9For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11It is written: “ ‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.’ ”[a] 12So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.

13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. 14As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food[b] is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.

19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.

22So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.



173 posted on 04/25/2005 11:03:12 AM PDT by followerofchrist
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To: Blzbba
Would you discuss the New Testament with a Jew?

No, how curious for you to ask that.

Just curious if your discusson of Bible topics is limited only to those of your own faith.

No, not topics.

One's faith alone doesn't distort or change the message of the New Testament, btw, nor the lessons contained therein.

I never said it did.

Discussing the New Testament with a Jew would be odd.

Jew..."Well, the New Testament is nonsense, not true, and Christ was a fraud (or alternately insane) but let me tell what all this means and what to think about it".

174 posted on 04/25/2005 11:03:45 AM PDT by Protagoras (Christ is risen.)
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To: Old Mountain man

It's what I've always done. And apparently it's how the church in question has done too. Just because they don't buy into the ecumenical nonsense that's all the rage, they're getting grief from those that do buy into it.


175 posted on 04/25/2005 11:05:23 AM PDT by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: billbears

From your tagline, I take it that you are a supporter of the Confederacy. Is that right?


176 posted on 04/25/2005 11:06:54 AM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: billbears

The important thing is to take care of the widows and orphans, right? I don't think Jesus spoke to the how to do it, just the do it.


177 posted on 04/25/2005 11:07:50 AM PDT by Old Mountain man (Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice!)
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To: followerofchrist

exactly...and let us always avoid assuming the worst motives behind what each other does!


178 posted on 04/25/2005 11:08:25 AM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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To: MineralMan
Oh...nice dig at the LDS folks! You're really working to annoy people today, aren't you?

An atheist comes on a thread about how Christians should interact and then has the temerity to quote a book that he rejects and I'm annoying?

You insult all believers here and you said you didn't want to do that and would apologize and not do it again, but here ya are. A Godless atheist pontificating to the poor stupid believers. Breathtaking arrogance. But then again, the only thing that matters is what YOU think, as you admitted, so, no problemo!

179 posted on 04/25/2005 11:11:24 AM PDT by Protagoras (Christ is risen.)
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To: MineralMan

cult

Pronunciation: 'k&lt
Function: noun
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: French & Latin; French culte, from Latin cultus care, adoration, from colere to cultivate -- more at WHEEL
1 : formal religious veneration : WORSHIP
2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4 : a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator health cults
5 a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion


180 posted on 04/25/2005 11:14:22 AM PDT by Protagoras (Christ is risen.)
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