Confederacy of the determined - (Southern heritage buffs vow "Confederate History Month")

WASHINGTON TIMES.COM ^ | APRIL 24, 2005 | Christina Bellantoni

[CHARLITE]

Southern heritage buffs vow to use the Virginia gubernatorial election as a platform for designating April as Confederate History and Heritage Month.

The four candidates have differing views on the Confederacy, an issue that has been debated for years in the commonwealth.

"We're not just a few people making a lot of noise," said Brag Bowling, a spokesman for the Sons of Confederate Veterans, the oldest hereditary organization for male descendents of Confederate soldiers. "This is not a racial thing; it is good for Virginia. We're going to keep pushing this until we get it."

Each candidate recently shared his thoughts on what Mr. Bowling called a "litmus test for all politicians." Lt. Gov. Timothy M. Kaine would not support a Confederate History and Heritage Month. Former state Attorney General Jerry W. Kilgore would support something that recognizes everyone who lived during the Civil War.

Sen. H. Russell Potts Jr. and Warrenton Mayor George B. Fitch would support a Confederate History and Heritage Month. Many past Virginia governors honored the Civil War or the Confederacy.

In 1990, former Gov. L. Douglas Wilder, the nation's first black governor, a Democrat and a grandson of slaves, issued a proclamation praising both sides of the war and remembering "those who sacrificed in this great struggle."

Former Govs. George Allen and James S. Gilmore III, both Republicans, issued Confederate History Month proclamations. In 2000, Mr. Gilmore replaced that proclamation with one commemorating both sides of the Civil War -- a move that enraged the Sons of Confederate Veterans.

Gov. Mark Warner, a Democrat, has refused to issue a gubernatorial decree on either side of the Civil War.

Mr. Kaine, another Democrat, would decline to issue a Confederate History and Heritage Month proclamation if he is elected governor, said his campaign spokeswoman, Delacey Skinner.

[stand watie]

just out of curiosity, do you REALLY believe any of the PRO-lincoln & PRO-DAMNyankee BILGE you post?? or is it just a pose to cause "discord on the forum"??

free dixie,sw

[stand watie]

i want to CONGRATULATE you on a HALF-smart post.

the FIRST i've read from you that made even SOME sense.

had our southern ancestors won their war against the north, my ancestors would have HAPPILY left you people ALONE after the armistice was signed.

PITY that lincoln & his coven of thugs had to START the war by trying to re-supply that MINOR fort in Charleston. frankly, i've always wondered if lincoln, the TYRANT & cheap scheming POLITICIAN, was simply TOO DUMB to realize what he had started, until it was far too late to avoid a NEEDLESS & BITTER war between the USA & CSA.

free dixie,sw

[mac_truck]

...perhaps you could gain notoriety by exposing DiLorenzo, who cites the quote and references it to the 1862 letter to Sherman's wife.

No, joining the club would be more like it. DiLorenzo has been exposed numerous times for embellishing details that support his thesis. This looks like another example.

From my own limited research DiLorenzo is the only source for this quote which he claims comes from the Collected Works of William T Sherman. That such a tome seems not to exist should be sufficient to establish this quote as [another] embellishment.

On the other hand, if you are correct and the quote is a myth, why would DiLorenzo write something easily disproven?

Why indeed? Because perhaps he thought he could get away with it. As a historical revisionist DiLorenzo is first and foremost a blogger, and this type of evidence most often goes unchallenged on the internet. If he were to use it in say, one of his books, he would be forced to reference the citation.

Fwiw here is the original article he wrote for Lew Rockwell that contains the quote. How Lincoln’s Army 'Liberated' the Indians . Notice how he provides hyperlinks to each of the books and articles he references except [of course] the Collected Works, which is where the quote was supposed to come from.

[rustbucket]

There is a book written in 1909 containing Sherman's letters home. I've not seen a copy but will look for it.

[rustbucket]

I found the letter Sherman wrote to his wife. It is in his handwriting in the Notre Dame on-line archives.

July 31, 1862 Sherman letter

As near as I can make out, it says the following:

The north may fall into Bankruptcy and anarchy first, but if they can hold on the war will soon assume a turn to extermination, not of soldiers alone, that is the least part of the trouble, but the people.

Doesn't sound like he is advocating it, merely forecasting that it will come to pass.

[fortheDeclaration]

Doesn't sound like he is advocating it, merely forecasting that it will come to pass.

Thanks.

I commend you for your honesty.

[fortheDeclaration]

Amen to your post.

[fortheDeclaration]

saying that something KNOWINGLY FALSE is a fact, does NOT make it so. it remains a LIE.

Are you talking about lies like Sherman being for the extermination of the South?

[fortheDeclaration]

It looks like DiLorenzo is just repeating a secondary source.

This is how these myths take on a life of there own, constant repeating by historians who never check to see the primary source.

[Gianni]

No, joining the club would be more like it. [...] From my own limited research DiLorenzo is the only source for this quote which he claims comes from the Collected Works of William T Sherman. That such a tome seems not to exist should be sufficient to establish this quote as [another] embellishment.

This volume presents the text of the corrected, expanded, and slightly revised version of the Memoirs of General William T. Sherman, published by D. Appleton and Company in 1886. Sherman began to write his memoirs at least as early as 1873 but feared they would be too controversial for publication. He finally decided to go ahead with the project and on January 23, 1875, wrote his brother, Senator John Sherman, about his decision: "You will be surprised and maybe alarmed, that I have at last agreed to publish in book form my Memoirs of a period from 1846-65, in two volumes.... I have carefully eliminated everything calculated to raise controversy, except where sustained by documents embraced in the work itself, and then only with minor parties." He was encouraged to do so, he said, by the reaction of the few people to whom he had earlier shown the manuscript, one of whom was "emphatic that it ought to be published in the interest of history."

He had first discussed publication with Robert Clarke & Company but then made arrangements with William Appleton, who came to St. Louis to meet with him. The completed manuscript was in the publisher's office in New York by March 1875, and the Memoirs of General William T. Sherman. By Himself was published in two volumes in May 1875 by D. Appleton and Company. According to what Sherman later told U. S. Grant, who passed it on to Samuel L. Clemens (Mark Twain), 25,000 sets were sold at $7 a set, for which Sherman was paid $25,000.

The Memoirs proved to be very controversial, and Sherman received numerous letters, ranging from praise to demands for extensive revisions. After consulting with friends and family, he decided that, though he would correct factual errors in future printings, he would not actually revise the work. Instead, he announced his intention to bring out a "second edition" that would include an appendix of letters in which other people would have the opportunity to give their own versions of the events he described. A few corrections were made in the cheaper one-volume version brought out by Appleton the next year. Sherman collected material for the "second edition" but did not work on it until after his retirement from the army in 1884. To the 1875 printing he added a second preface, two new chapters, one at the beginning and the other at the end, an appendix to volume I, two appendixes to volume II, and an index. Sherman corrected further factual errors and made a few revisions. Portraits were also added, as well as maps that had been unavailable at the time of the 1875 printing. By the spring of 1885 his work was completed, but he asked D. Appleton and Company to delay publication until after the Personal Memoirs of U. S. Grant was published in 1885-86. The expanded, corrected, and slightly revised version of the 1875 printing was published by D. Appleton and Company in New York as the Memoirs of General William T. Sherman, "Second edition, revised and corrected, in two volumes," in 1886. Sherman made no further corrections or revisions, and though later versions were issued containing additional conclusions and tributes, and are described on the title pages as "third edition," or "fourth edition," all of them are printed from the same plates as the 1886 version, or from the original uncorrected 1875 printing, as in the case of the 1891 Appleton version, which appeared after Sherman had transferred the publication rights in 1890 to Clemens's publishing firm, Charles L. Webster & Company.

Aside from the supplemental material, almost all of the fifty or so differences between the 1875 and 1886 versions of the Memoirs are corrections of fact, such as the change from "Louis Philippe of France" to "the King of Sicily," at 39.36; or "1849" to "1850" at 88.2 (made in the 1876 printing); or "Taos, New Mexico" to "Santa Fý, New Mexico" at 111.38 (made in the 1876 printing) . Some corrections were made in spelling, such as the change of "Quimby" to "Quinby" at 197.22 and elsewhere. Others supply omissions; for example, in 1875 Sherman spoke of "Marshall and his family" but was informed that the family really belonged to "Mr. Wimmer," and so he revised the passage at 73.34-35 to read "Marshall and the family of Mr. Wimmer." Other passages where "Mr. Wimmer" was added are at 74.35-36 and 77.31-32. Two omissions of General Force were corrected: at 547.30-31, "because General Leggett's division had carried" was changed to "which Leggett's and Force's divisions had carried"; and at 736.32-33, "Nevertheless, a division (Mower's) of the Seventeenth Corps was kept" became "Nevertheless, Force's and Mower's divisions of the Seventeenth Corps were kept" in the 1886 version. The omission of the command of Major-General Pope in 1875 at 239.38-240.8 and 241.9-10 was corrected in the first case by revision of the passage (see notes to this volume), and in the second case by adding a line to the page. Other changes involved correcting the names of persons involved in a particular event; for example, at 513.18, 529.14, and 529.37, "Ward" was changed to "Williams," and at 629.20, "Corse" was changed to "Cox." In a few instances, Sherman made his wording less abrasive: for example, at 73.23, "Sutter was very 'tight,' " was changed to "Sutter was enthusiastic"; at 500.20, in a description of McPherson, the word "timid" was changed to "cautious"; and at 716.14, "assented to these false publications" was changed to "assented to these publications." (For a few more extensive revisions of this kind see the notes to this volume at 232.38-41 and 560.9-17 and 23-24.) Because this version is the last one that Sherman himself prepared, the 1886 D. Appleton and Company text of the Memoirs of General William T. Sherman is printed here.

This volume presents the text of the 1886 printing but does not attempt to reproduce features of its typographic design. The text, including the index, is printed without alteration except for the correction of typographical errors and the change of page numbers to conform to this edition. Spelling, punctuation, and capitalization are often expressive features, and they are not altered, even when inconsistent or irregular.

Editor's note: The mac_truck correction club meets weekly in the banquet room of Hooters in Huntsville.

[M. Espinola]

"i certainly DID call the ONES in the GROUP, who harrassed us for our religious beliefs, "pieces of DAMNyankee filth"!'

The World Trade Center 9/11 site is a solemn location, one which many in NY, NJ, Conn & far beyond lost relatives & friends on that day of Islamic horror.

I can not believe for one second anyone at that site would go out of their way to harass people involved in prayer for the thousands of 9/11 victims, since so many have prayer in the past and shall continue.

"i would guess, based solely on your DUMB, silly,ignorant & HATE-filled posts, that you (& several other of the unionist coven members) would have joined the group that night in their "good fun" at our expense."

You guessed wrong in terms of myself & anyone else in here. Nobody would insult or harass anyone in prayer at the WTC site.

Know this, I would be one of the first to step forward if you or another ignorant redneck began insulting people in New York by calling them "pieces of DAMNyankee filth".

Let's face facts here, you in Manhattan or any other Northeastern urban zone, with out fights starting, would be abnormal, considering all the insane abusive rantings you have dished out for all those living in the Northeast.

Therefore, I do not believe the entire truth has been stated on this issue.

[M. Espinola]

"i want to CONGRATULATE you on a HALF-smart post."

You know the truth when it's printed :)

"had our southern ancestors won their war against the north, my ancestors would have HAPPILY left you people ALONE after the armistice was signed."

How does it feel living in a fantasy world?

"PITY that lincoln & his coven of thugs had to START the war by trying to re-supply that MINOR fort in Charleston."

Since it is the duty of the United States government to resupply and protect United States forts, no matter their location? No forts are considered "MINOR" especially a U.S. fort under siege by a wild mob of insurrectionist pro-slavers..

Do you, in 2005, desire a portion of United States be broken off for use as a private 'nation' for followers of the Lost Cause of the Confederacy?

[Ditto]

Do you, in 2005, desire a portion of United States be broken off for use as a private 'nation' for followers of the Lost Cause of the Confederacy?

Yes, he does.

[rustbucket]

I commend you for your honesty.

History is history.

Honesty also requires me to acknowledge that there is more than one way to interpret Sherman's words in the letter. He could have been saying essentially, "If the North can hang on and avoid bankruptcy and anarchy, the war [our army] will soon start destroying not only their army but their people too, so hang on Northerners." That is the way DiLorenzo interprets it.

I tried to read the preceding page of the letter to get more of the context, but a number of words were indecipherable. In the context of other statements made by Sherman, DiLorenzo's interpretation may not be that much of a stretch. Other Sherman quotes:

"Until we can repopulate Georgia, it is useless for us to occupy it; but the utter destruction of its roads, houses, and people [emphasis mine], will cripple their military resources. By attempting to hold the roads, we will lose a thousand men each month, and will gain no result. I can make this march, and make Georgia howl!"

"Our armies traverse the land and waves of disaffection, sedition and crime close in behind and our track disappears. But one thing is certain, there is a class of people, men, women, and children who must be killed or banished [emphasis mine] before we can hope for peace and order even as far South as Tennessee."

Kill or banish Southern children?

[stand watie]

nobody here cares what you think or don't think.

as long as you post SILLY pictures, cartoons & BILGE, all of which require no thought/knowledge/logic/education, you will be the laughingstock of FR.

free dixie,sw

[stand watie]

OBVIOUSLY those who DID harass our group at Ground Zero did NOT see that hallowed place as anything special, inasmuch as they acted (according to the posted letter) like they were at an amusement park/bowling alley/tavern.

frankly, i cannot imagine ANY place in dixie, where such persons would not have had "something unpleasant" happen to them for the same exact conduct toward the worshipers.

i also did NOT see any of members of the unionist coven either apologize for their comments to me OR to express horror/disgust at that INdecent conduct.

free dixie,sw

[stand watie]

why sherman (that wunnerful,wunnerful, PERFECT in every way gentleman!) wouldn't do something as awful as advocating SLAUGHTERING women & children for the offense of JUST being SOUTHERNERS & ALIVE. (sarcasm button: ON!)

i just KNOW that the unionist coven, in defiance of both logic & FACTS, wouldn't admit something like that. (rotflmRao.)

free dixie,sw

[M. Espinola]

I know, you know and everyone else knows, but he's too much of a coward to admit it.

Neo-confederates always say "all were want is to be left alone". If this was really true the whole rotten bunch of them would chip in, buy a swamp somewhere down in the depths Dixie and jump in & remain there! (poor frog, alligators & insects. :)

[stand watie]

pardon me, but your HATEfulness, CLUELESSness & arrogant IGNORANCE is showing, again.

fwiw,i do NOT believe ANYONE here, who has a brain, fails to understand that i believe that political/social/financial INDEPENDENCE for dixie is BEST for our people, since you DAMNyankees,LEFTISTS, STATISTS & REVISIONISTS just will not "go away & leave us ALONE"!

every year that passes, the northeastern LIBERALS & HATERS get more intrusive & sponsor ever more ANTI-LIBERTY laws, that attempt to deprive EVERYONE of more of their freedom.

i cannot say what the spark will be that causes the MAJORITY of southerners to DEMAND our FREEDOM from the "blue/nanny states", but i believe my teen-aged niece/nephew will live to breathe "FREE DIXIE" air in a new & MUCH-improved Dixie Republic.

free dixie,sw

[M. Espinola]

First off, for the 900th time, there is no <>"unionist coven" nobody thinks in these crazy terms except you.

Second of all, was this so-called group of modern day rebels waving around confederate flags and insult everyone in Lower Manhattan?

It's a real miracle you departed New York in one piece knowing how you act on here.

You continue making statements relating to how the majority of Americans do not like 'Southerners' or the one's like you Southronites, or whatever the goof ball term is you use. It's because of the insane antics of backward rednecks such as yourself that an adverse image is created.

With so many elderly people from other parts of the nation moving to various locations down there, in another generation your type will not even exist any longer, which is another form of cleaning up America!