Posted on 04/16/2005 7:04:14 AM PDT by Mike Fieschko
Pope Air Force Base is down to six fully capable C-130 Hercules cargo airplanes because of maintenance problems.
The rest of the 43rd Airlift Wing's 31 airplanes are grounded, restricted or unavailable because of deployment or depot maintenance. said 1st Lt. Mark W. Hanson, a Pope spokesman.
The limits at Pope are similar to those of older C-130 airplanes throughout the Air Force.
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C-130 FLEET
NEW
J-30 Model (pictured)
- Length: 112 feet, 9 inches
- Cargo compartment length: 55 feet
- Speed: 410 mph at 22,000 feet
- Maximum takeoff weight: 164,000 pounds
- Crew: Three (two pilots and loadmaster)
- Cost: $49.5 million in 1998 dollars
OLD
E Model
- Length: 97 feet, 9 inches
- Cargo compartment length: 40 feet
- Speed: 345 mph at 20,000 feet
- Maximum takeoff weight: 155,000 pounds
- Crew: Five (two pilots, navigator, flight engineer and loadmaster)
- Cost: $11.9 million
''It's worse than we first thought,'' Lt. Gen. Donald J. Wetekam told Congress on April 6. Wetekam is the Air Force's deputy chief of staff for installations and logistics.
For years, the Air Force has planned to replace the E model with the high-tech J model, which has a distinctive six-bladed propeller. Construction is under way at Pope Air Force Base to accommodate the longer J model. The C-130 is used to transport and airdrop troops and cargo from neighboring Fort Bragg, whose leaders say the C-130 shortage makes training harder for them.
But the funding for the long-awaited replacement airplane remains up in the air.
Supporters of the J model, such as U.S. Rep. Robin Hayes, a Concord Republican, say Congress needs to buy C-130Js and quit spending money to fix the E model aircraft, which were built during the Vietnam War. Hayes said the C-130 is much more efficient for hauling smaller loads short distances than the larger C-17 cargo jet and can be used to keep soldiers off the roads in Iraq, where they can be killed or maimed by homemade bombs.
Critics of the C-130J program, such as Sen. John McCain, an Arizona Republican, point to the J model's rapidly rising costs, its poor performance during testing and questionable contracting procedures. McCain said during a hearing on Capitol Hill that the cost per airplane rose from $33 million in 1995 to $50 million in 1998 to $67 million in 2004. Peter Sepp, vice president of the National Taxpayers Union, said the C-130J ''has proven better at lifting tax dollars than military cargo and personnel.''
On Wednesday, Hayes wrote a letter to Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld asking him to put the C-130J back into the president's 2006 budget proposal. President Bush left the airplane out entirely, but Rumsfeld agreed to take another look at the matter.
''Perceived savings generated by the proposed cuts in the C-130J will be consumed by over $800 million in termination liability and associated costs as well as billions of dollars in increased costs to support aging and less capable aircraft,'' Hayes wrote. ''Consequently, this proposal to end the C-130J program could end up costing more than the cost of completing the multiyear contract for all 62 aircraft and leave our military with far less capable tactical aircraft.''
Mobility requirements
The Air Force is conducting a study of its mobility requirements to determine what its needs are for cargo airplanes. The study was expected to be out in March, then April and now May.
The manufacturer, Lockheed Martin, disputes criticism of the C-130J.
''The airplane is currently in two combat theaters, Afghanistan and Iraq,'' said Tom Jurkowsky, a spokesman at the corporate headquarters at Bethesda, Md. ''It is performing extraordinarily well. It has gotten rave reviews.''
Lockheed Martin says the newer version will vastly improve capabilities.
''Compared to the earlier production C-130E, maximum speed is up 21 percent, and climb time is down 50 percent,'' the statement said. ''Cruising altitude is 40 percent higher, range 40 percent longer. With new engines and new propellers, the 'J' can reach 28,000 feet in 14 minutes.''
Congressional critics raise questions about whether the J model is capable of meeting airdrop and other requirements. Lockheed Martin officials say many of the criticisms are based on outdated studies.
The improvements over the more recent H model explain the higher costs, the company spokesman said.
''When you compare the C-130H to the C-130J, we are talking about two dramatically different airplanes,'' Jurkowsky said.
McCain said in a hearing that ''we don't have unlimited dollars'' and at $67 million per airplane the C-130J is becoming ''one heck of an expensive airplane.''
''We've got plenty of money,'' Hayes said in a telephone interview. ''It's a question of how you spend it.''
Pope's C-130 fleet shrinks to six planes [that's Pope AFB, North Carolina]
So how many does the Vatican have now?
Well SOMEONE had to ask.
FYI 392 steps to walk around one. AMAZING what you find out at 2:00am when you're bored out of your mind and have to stay awake.
rdb3 is broadcast live before a
pre-recorded studio audience
This same base was home to the A-10 aircraft, and the funding was so bad during the latter Clinton Administration years that there were parts shortages. When one plane landed, the maintenance crews would have to remove some parts so they could get another one off the ground. The military was in an extremely pathetic state at that point, and isn't really that much better now.
;-)
Darn...I thought this was anothe JIIPII thread.
Air Vatican -> C-130 rollin' down the strip...Pope JP gonna' take a little trip...
This same base was home to the A-10 aircraft, and the funding was so bad during the latter Clinton Administration years that there were parts shortages.
The AF brass NEVER wanted this plane. Right from the start they did everything they could to kill it.
If you're interested in more on this I'd recomend "Boyd" the fighter pilot who changed the art of war
Robert Coram
GREAT BOOK.
I'm sure that the Iraqis didn't want the U.S. to have this plane either.
USAF brass frequently use broken crystal balls when guessing which aircraft are best for the next decade. They are worse than the army, but only because there is no replacement for the Grunt model 1.
I was in Okinawa a few weeks ago when a C-130 parked next to us. It was a 1962 E model. Even being generous and assuming it was delivered in 1963, that still makes it a 42 year old airplane! We have to do better than that! It's too bad that Lockheed shut down the H3 line. Those could be cranked out one after another for a whole lot less than the J model.
Gota Love the procurement system for "new" aircraft. I remembered hearing that the C-130 was Congresses baby not the military's.
I know that we cannot afford to get new aircraft every year. However most people think that combat is about weapons and tactics(i.e. warheads on foreheads)... its not....its about supply and logistics. Those advanced combat aircraft are worth less unless they are properly supplied with weapons, people, food, gas the things that they need since they wont kill people at home.
Ever since the end of the cold war the US Military has tried to do more with less, more with less, but theres a point that will backfire especially given the increased op tempos within the past 5 years. You can only use a machine so much until it completely fails. Note that the Air Force has the most money of any of the services.
Speaking of Old aircraft think of the B-52. Many of those have reached 40-50 years of continuous service.
Valin good point about Col Boyd. We discussed him at one of my leadership classes and mentioned how the Air Force Brass refused to acknowledge the OODA LOOOP Until it had been accepted and was being taught by the Marines and Army.
Amateur talk tactic,
dilettantes talk strategy,
professionals talk logistics
Valin good point about Col Boyd. We discussed him at one of my leadership classes and mentioned how the Air Force Brass refused to acknowledge the OODA LOOOP
Well in their defence, he did have a tendency to be...not a "people person". :-)
You've heard the story of how he set fire to a generals tie once?
If McCain and his buddies are opposed to the "J" it must be good for the country.
BTTT
ping
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