Live Thread: President's Remarks on Terri's Death

various | 3/31/2005 | Pyro7480

[nikos1121]

"CHEAP SHOTS??? I assure you, my comments regarding the Bush Brothers failure on this are genuine and sincere."

I'm sure they are. WE are all mad and wish to blame someone. Please read MEN IN BLACK. We should not come down on our president too hard on this to the point that it will undermine his presidency. This was a no win situation for him as has been discussed her by many. He could have executed some executive action but have lost in the end.

He is not our king.

[Rutles4Ever]

OK - so what would a President Kerry have done?

Nothing.

Next question. Would John Kerry be lauded for "allowing the 'law' to be enforced", or would 90% of Free Republic be calling for his immediate consignment to Hell?

Lots and lots of hypocrites here. Be true to your beliefs, not people.

[olde north church]

How long before the following comparison hits DU and becomes a talking point. I'm actually quite surprised I haven't heard this in the past 2 weeks:
How many innocent Afghani and Iraqi civilians and American soldiers did President Bush sentence to death when he invaded Afghanistan and Iraq?
Here goes starting ...now!

[FreedomCalls]

What he really wanted was a way to minimize damage to himself while doing nothing that mattered.

Your hatred of Governor Bush is palpable. Are you sure you are in the right place? He DID issue an executive order ordering the feeding tube replaced. What more did you want him to do?

October 21, 2003

Florida Governor's Office EXECUTIVE ORDER NUMBER 03-201

         WHEREAS, on October 21, 2003, the Florida Legislature passed House Bill 35-E (to be published as Public Law 03-418), signed this date by me, authorizing the Governor to issue a one-time stay in certain cases where, as of October 15, 2003, the action of withholding or withdrawing nutrition or hydration from a patient in a permanent vegetative state has already occurred and there is no written advance directive and a family member has challenged the withholding or withdrawing of nutrition and hydration; and

         WHEREAS, under House Bill 35-E a person may not be held civilly liable and is not subject to regulatory or disciplinary sanctions for taking any action to comply with a stay issued by the Governor pursuant to House Bill 35-E; and

         WHEREAS, in the case of Theresa Marie Schindler Schiavo, Robert Schindler and Mary Schindler, the parents of Theresa Marie Schindler Schiavo, have requested that the Governor enter a stay prohibiting further withholding or withdrawing of nutrition or hydration; and

         WHEREAS, a court has found that Theresa Schiavo is in a persistent vegetative state as of October 15, 2003; and

         WHEREAS, Theresa Schiavo had no written advance directive as of October 15, 2003; and

         WHEREAS, nutrition and hydration have been withdrawn from Theresa Schiavo, and continues to be withheld as of October 15, 2003; and

         WHEREAS, the Schindlers have challenged the withdrawal and withholding of nutrition and hydration as of October 15, 2003; and

         WHEREAS, an immediate and urgent need has arisen to address the removal of nutrition or hydration, because death due to lack of nutrition and hydration is imminent;

         NOW THEREFORE, I, JEB BUSH, Governor of the State of Florida, by the powers vested in me by the Constitution and laws of the State of Florida, specifically House Bill 35-E, do hereby promulgate the following Executive Order, effective immediately:

         Section 1          A.  Effective immediately, continued withholding of nutrition and hydration from Theresa Schiavo is hereby stayed.

         B.  Effective immediately, all medical facilities and personnel providing medical care for Theresa Schiavo, and all those acting in concert or participation with them, are hereby directed to immediately provide nutrition and hydration to Theresa Schiavo by means of a gastronomy tube, or by any other method determined appropriate in the reasonable judgment of a licensed physician.

         C.  While this order is effective, no person shall interfere with the stay entered pursuant to this order.

         D.  This order shall be binding on all persons having notice of its provisions.

         E.  This order shall be effective until such time as the Governor revokes it.

         F.  The Florida Department of Law Enforcement shall serve a copy of this Executive Order upon the medical facility currently providing care for Theresa Schiavo.

         IN TESTIMONY WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and have caused the Great Seal of the State of Florida to be affixed this 21st day of October, 2003.

[churchillbuff]

Blaming Bush for his inaction is like blaming FDR for not saving lynching victims in the 1930s South.

[churchillbuff]

BUSH: The strong have the duty to protect the weak"""

Then why didn't he do so?

[nikos1121]

I can understand you anger and frustration I just fail to see what he or they could have done.

The congress and president were together on this.

You have good level headed thinkers saying that he could not have done anything else.

Did you read Ann Coulter's column today or Charles Krauthammer last week?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A58464-2005Mar22.html
and
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/coulter1.asp

Read MEN IN BLACK and get back to me...

[You Dirty Rats]

The executive--in Florida (by their constitution) and the United States, by the U.S. Constitution--is vested with executive power so that action can be taken above, outside, beyond the rule of law when need be.

The Constitution is the basis for our whole "rule of law" in this case. You are saying that the rule of law empowers the President to act above, outside, and beyond that same rule of law.

You're not a big fan of logic or consistency, are you?

If Presidents are empowered with executive authority to act above, outside, and beyond the rule of law, then what check do we have on Bubba Clinton declaring himself President for Life and taxing all Freepers at 100% of both income and wealth?

Stop. Think. Please. This isn't Latin America.

[quantfive]

"As for Terri, we can only blame ourselves. Why? Why didn't we stop this from happening? I know I should have done more. I didn't. I blame myself. I cannot lay blame to the President or to the Gov. of Florida without also blaming myself."

Sorry, I won't blame myself. Holding canle-lit vigils or yelling at the top of my lungs would not have helped her. We may not have been able to prevent this from happening, as so much of the circumstances were very unusual. Judge Greer had the power and holds the accountability for his decision, whether any of us feel it is right or wrong. However, out of this awful situation, perhaps some things can change for people that may be in the exact same situation as Terri someday.

[Rutles4Ever]

He could have executed some executive action but have lost in the end.

So all that bluster about doing as we please in Iraq, with or without a U.N. mandate, was a mistake? I seem to recall the President showing genuine leadership, giving his finger to France, Germany, and Kofi Annan, and coming out on top in the end, and with much more respect than if he said, "Nah, the world disagrees. Let's bring those aircraft carriers home. It won't look good."

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

You're doing a great job. The Bush hatred here is way past the point of sickening.

[proud American in Canada]

"Point being, if you attack one over-reach, if you're sincere, you need to attack them all."

That is a point well taken.

"Otherwise, don't use the soldiers as fodder for your argument."

I wasn't using the solders as "fodder." I respect their sacrifice and believe what I said. I don't want to get into an argument with other Freepers, and I say this as a person who has called and emailed lawmakers to try to save Terri. If I am wrong about the President not having the authority to step in, I will admit it and be just as disgusted with him as the rest of you.

Although your 5th Amendment argument is one I'd like to research, EA, I sincerely don't believe the President had the authority to prevent a binding court order from being carried out, as repulsive as that order was.

Those who point to Eisenhower's use of troops in Alabama are missing a key difference--there, the troops were enforcing a federal court integration order.

Here, there is no federal order to enforce. GW would merely be stepping in because he didn't like the outcome of a county court case.

And that is a precedent I find very disturbing. Can you imagine a President Hillary stepping in to change the outcome of county court decisions she didn't like?

I have to log off now, but take care, both of you, on this very sad day.

[FreedomCalls]

Each branch is supposed to be restrained by the law as written, most especially the highest law, the Constitution of the United States, and that of a particular state if applicable. Increasingly the Judges and Justices, Congresscritters and Presidents too, are ignoring that highest law, and just doing whatever strikes their fancy.

And your solution for the problem of one branch of government ignoring the law is to have the other two branches ignore the law as well. How ignorant.

Wouldn't it be better for the other two branches to follow the law, change the offensive parts of it (such as declaring a feeding tube "life support") and to appoint people who believe in following the law to judgeships?

[badbass]

Y'all keep talking about the 'rule of law' in defending our leaders' inaction...while ignoring the fact that the constitution is THE law. Your 'reasoning' is identical the the lawyers who have efectively negated the rule of law.

Bingo.

[Rutles4Ever]

If Presidents are empowered with executive authority to act above, outside, and beyond the rule of law, then what check do we have on Bubba Clinton declaring himself President for Life and taxing all Freepers at 100% of both income and wealth?

Problem is, the judiciary has decided that it can act above, outside, and beyond the rule of law, making itself the arbiter of life and death with Roe v. Wade. And neither the executive, or legislative branch can do anything about it, as we see.

[jpsb]

I am not going to turn this into a WW2 thread, Baatan was sad and disgraceful, but FDR decided Germany had to be deal with first.

[TAdams8591]

I will read MEN IN BLACK. I love Mark Levin. My comments have NOTHING to do with anger. I have been urging the Bush's to go in and get her all along. I knew the courts were going to FAIL Terri. My opinion that they had both the OBLIGATION and the AUTHORITY will NOT change. If you have the ABILITY and AUTHORITY to save someone who is being STARVED to DEATH UNCONSTITUTIONALLY, you USE it.

Please read Bill Bennett's article regarding this issue in the National Review ON-line. It is well done!

[FreedomCalls]

Then mans law conflicts with natural law or devine law it is no longer law. It is tyranny

Then CHANGE THE LAW to something more suitable. But don't just expect the executive and legislative to ignore laws they find "icky."

[Gelato]

This is not an execution in the legal sense.

Look at the Florida Constitution:

ARTICLE IV, SECTION 8. Clemency.-- (a) Except in cases of treason and in cases where impeachment results in conviction, the governor may, by executive order filed with the custodian of state records, suspend collection of fines and forfeitures, grant reprieves not exceeding sixty days and, with the approval of two members of the cabinet, grant full or conditional pardons, restore civil rights, commute punishment, and remit fines and forfeitures for offenses.

Lest we forget, the judge ordered Terri to die. He did not simply say Michael Schiavo could pull a feeding tube. He said Michael Schiavo SHALL deny her food and water. "Shall," under the law, is a mandatory requirement.

That is a death sentence.

Can it be that, simply because she was innocent, she is not worthy of the executive power to have her rights restored?

[badbass]

You're wrong.

Thanks, that's very helful. Care to elaborate?