Opinion: Apple -- Here to Stay

MacCentral ^ | March 08, 2005 | Don Tennant

[r5boston]

Nearly a decade ago, just a few months after Microsoft shipped Windows 95, I asked Bill Gates if it was a conscious decision in the development of that product to give Windows more of a Mac look and feel. Of course I knew he'd say it wasn't, but I couldn't resist asking. "There was no goal even to compete with Macintosh," Gates proclaimed. "We don't even think of Macintosh as a competitor."

That was a crock, so I pressed the issue a little. I asked him how he accounted for the widespread perception that Windows 95 looked a lot like Mac 88, and whether the similarity was just a coincidence. I didn't expect a sobbing confession of mimicry, but I thought it would be cool to see how he'd respond. Surprisingly enough, Gates shifted gears and became more forthcoming.

[antiRepublicrat]

Microsoft stealing windows from MAC. Apple stoled it first.

One more reason why I find it hard to get indignant over software piracy.

The idea was first envisioned by Vanaver Bush in the 40s, extended by Douglas Engelbart (inventor of the mouse) in the 50s and 60s, and most of his engineers went on to work at Xerox PARC to continue it more, where they developed the Alto and Star.

Later, Apple offered Xerox a chance to invest in Apple for letting them take tours of PARC to see their GUI technology. Apple already had an OS almost finished, but they took the basic idea of movable windows, but added a lot to it to make it actually work, like double-clicking icons, dragging, pull-down menus, a menubar, and a trash can. It's this fully-usable, finished product that was copied by Microsoft.

So, yes, Engelbart, Xerox, Apple and Microsoft did build on the ideas of others. But of all the players, the credit should go like this:

• Bush thought of it
• Engelbart expanded the concept and created the critical mouse
• Xerox made it work (using Engelbart's engineers)
• Apple made it affordable and usable for the masses (using Xerox's engineers)
• Microsoft basically just copied

[Last Visible Dog]

Not the Mac users. Read back over this thread and see who it is using ad hominem attacks?

Swordmaker, I think you are the only one that is using ad hominem attacks. Remember this one:

Swordmaker: Are you truly as ignorant as you appear

The MacCrybaby's are the ones throwing the rocks and spewing personal insults.

[antiRepublicrat]

You must dissect the Ipod to replace the battery and doing so voids the warranty

That's disingenuous. The average battery life is a lot longer than the iPod warranty.

[CheneyChick]

My Gen 1 iPod (5 GB) is still working on the original battery. The battery issue is overrated hype.

[antiRepublicrat]

That was the bios, not the hardware

That's what I was talking about. All those off the shelf parts were useless to make a PC with unless you had the BIOS. That was IBM's stranglehold on the hardware until Compaq broke it.

[antiRepublicrat]

Are you ignorant of the fact that this voids the warranty?

Yep, we're all really worried about voiding an expired warranty.

Building in the battery was a design trade-off, not a shortcoming. By doing so, they were able to make the unit smaller and more durable than the competition, since battery holders, covers and latches take space, and they also have a habit of breaking. The tradeoff for these benefits is a slightly more effort required to replace the battery.

That's a problem I can live with. The competition's crappy interface and user controls that don't let me pick one song out of several hundred really fast is something I can't live with. Perfect integration with iTunes, the audio program I switched to a few months ago (only because it's the best, I didn't own an iPod), is also a plus.

[Protagoras]

Curiously enough, shares of Apple (AAPL) are trading higher today than shares of Microsoft (MSFT).

How many shares of each are outstanding?

[af_vet_rr]

One penny less than $100 - it is $99 and you have to send it back to the Apple mothership (and the shipping is not free)

Which is the same reason why you don't take your car back to the dealership out of warranty, to have any work done.

I just replaced the battery in my iPod with a longer-lasting battery than the one that came with it - for under $30. I didn't need to, my battery was still fine, but the battery life bump was enough that it was worth it to me.

[Tribune7]

So it's Bush's fault! :-)

[Last Visible Dog]

I hear that a lot. Then I ask, "Have you ever owned one or even used one?" Most of the time the answer is No. End of discussion.

Sorry. I have owned a Mac (I still own one - an old one). I was factory trained on the Apple II and Apple III product lines and I was also trained on the Apple Lisa. I used to drive a VW van with Apple stickers on it (and I was a Democrat at the time so I perfectly fit the Apple demographic). I used to be a big fan of Apple. But when they went to the one-computer, one-company, one-fuhrer 1984 model they totally lost me (and market share). I worked in the Microcomputer industry back in the early 1980's wild west days - I enjoy working on different platforms. During the 1990's I tried to justify purchasing a Mac (just for the fun of having another platform) but the Mac was inviable in the business community so there was no way to justify it. When my company first launched its web product I tried to get a Mac so we could be certain our product worked correctly on that platform but I could not justify it because in our market - the financial community (Brokers, FA's, investors) the Mac was statistically nonexistent (less than 1% of users).

[Last Visible Dog]

Owning a PC may not be a job, but using one sure is.

You don't have to be a computer illiterate to use a Mac, but it helps

[Melas]

Creative Nomad (that has twice the storage and about half the price of an Ipod)

Show me an 80gb Nomad for $175 or a 40gb Nomad for $150, a 2gb Nomad for $75 or a 1gb Nomad for $50. That's what you're going to have to come up with to validate your statement above. The Ipods are: $350 for the 40gb, $300 for the 20gb, $150 for the 1gb, and $100 for the 512mb.

You're lying through your teeth when you say you can get a Nomad with twice the storage for the half the price. You'd be lying through your teeth if you said you could get a Nomad with the SAME storage at half the price.

[cowboyway]

You don't have to be a computer illiterate to use a Mac, but it helps

Alas! The missing link! For years I've subscribed to the theory that it's Bill Gates' goal to rule the world. But I never could put my finger on main piece of the 'secret plan'.

But thanks to you, it's solved.

Gates plan is to so completely mimic the Mac, that the entire world becomes computer illiterate zombies, unable to do our own computing and forced to kneel at the Microsoft throne.

Viva la Gatesware!

[soundandvision]

Microsoft is the one on the ropes right now.

While I agree that Apple makes wonderful products... I think it's safe to say that Microsoft is not on the ropes or anywhere near them. Until the day when Apple makes mass-software that people are using in offices, banks, homes, etc... Microsoft is safe.

By the way, I support the evil Microsoft.

[Proud_texan]

""Mac/PC and creation/evolution"

Ah, yes, it also reminds me of the Ford vs. Chevy debates of my youth.

What I get a kick out of it's the cool aid drinkers that defend a company that advised John Kerry and has Al Gore on it's board.

That's probably why they make such cool products, they're locked into that metrosexual thing.

[soundandvision]

There were two turning points as I recall. When apple decided to protect the operating system and when Jobs treated Gates badly in their face-to-face in the 80s. I think it was amazing that Gates kept developing Mac software and even put millions into apple.

I think it's 'hip' to say that you like Jobs and hate Gates...

[antiRepublicrat]

So it's Bush's fault! :-)

LOL! Always is.

[antiRepublicrat]

Gates plan is to so completely mimic the Mac, that the entire world becomes computer illiterate zombies, unable to do our own computing and forced to kneel at the Microsoft throne.

[puts on best John Cleese voice] ... You're weird.

[antiRepublicrat]

I think it's 'hip' to say that you like Jobs and hate Gates

I can't stand either of them.

[Bush2000]

Yet qualified Linux admins don't seem to know it. I mean, how can Largo service 400 machines and 800 accounts with an admittedly underworked staff of 6 (including the IT director)?

Simple: all of their machines are derived from a common image stored on a single disk. But that doesn't diminish the fact that Linux boxes are simply more difficult and time-consuming to administer. I don't know how you can even question this premise. Anybody with half a clue knows this to be a fact.

But lack of software functionality isn't a TCO issue. You can't even compare TCO if one can't do the job specified.

Of course it is. If you don't have the functionality and need it, you're going to have to endure some kind of cost to provide it. That may mean buying it or modifying existing software to provide what you need. Of course it's a TCO issue.

managing a Mac network of clients is also brain-dead easy.

So is managing a network of PC clients. But you need to administer them properly from the start -- which you clearly aren't willing or able to do.

Tell that to someone with a large ASP web site or a MS SQL Server farm.

This point was actually a gimme to you -- and you snubbed it. Server apps typically aren't as difficult to port to different architectures as desktop apps -- since they offer a layer of abstraction between their clients. That was the point.