Posted on 03/04/2005 9:11:13 AM PST by III-MEF
In the press reporting on case of Marine 2nd Lt. Ilario Pantano, one oft-repeated version has been that the car he and his men stopped on April 15 did not carry weapons. That's not totally true.
The Marines have charged Lt. Pantano with two counts of premeditated murder. He says he fatally shot two Iraqi insurgents after he thought they may have armed themselves while conducting a forced search of the vehicle. Turns out, according to a source close to the investigation, that the car's two seats, front and back, were not bolted down. This is an insurgent tactic for hiding, and quickly retrieving, weapons. In the trunk were cans filled with nails and bolts — the skin-piercing projectiles insurgents build into improvised explosive devices (IEDs).
Also, while the Naval Investigative Service was investigating the case last summer, commanders wrote a glowing fitness report on the 33-year-old Lt. Pantano, who led a platoon in some of the most dangerous territory in Iraq.
"Lt. Pantano's performance during the reporting period has been noteworthy and established his reputation as an accomplished infantry leader," his battalion commander wrote in August. "His actions during the fighting in Fallujah and al Zaidon highlighted a solid understanding of tactics and an ability to anticipate the enemy. Leads from the front always and balances his aggressive style with true concern for the welfare of his Marines. Exceptional communication skills for a 2nd Lt. Organized, aggressive, focused and driven. Ready for increased responsibility. Retain, promote and assign to challenging assignments."
(Excerpt) Read more at washtimes.com ...
No amnesty
Prosecute the JAGs
Then let him know!!
they are INSURGENTS"
It's funny how the hated MSM can make even Freepers become PC.
I should have put the word insurgents in quotes. I'm not being politically correct....I was responding to their use of the term in the article...However, having said that, the Bathists element are insurgents. Maybe in the future I will refer to them as General Scumbag Hoods.
Come on, Jeremiah...when you first signed on to this board, did anyone question YOUR posts just because you were new? Does a person's credibility hinge on his/her board tenure? I don't know you from Adam but I am not going to use that as a basis to form my opinion regarding your posts.
Yeah, you have listened to the man's mother talk about this case, but she and the defense attorney are the only ones talking, and they have done it non-stop. It wasn't until the last few days that the accuser has spoken up to present a different perspective to the situation.
Furthermore, don't you think it's possible that an active-duty Marine who has spent nearly a year with Pantano might be a little hesitant to identify himself? Heck, we're all anonymous here, so what's in a name?
Lastly, do you see that I am posting as Mom of 2 Marines? Well, dvldog36 is one of them, and he has a little brother coming out of the USMC 2nd Lieutenant factory in Quantico very soon.
So, be nice to my kid...he's a great son and a good Marine! Oops...am I sounding too much like Mrs. Pantano?
:)
THAT has some credibility. I will read that post of his much more closely now, and with an open mind. Thank you for further info. Yes, I was questioned many times by others about my posts, especially early on.
Jeremiah, I wouldn't back peddle too fast. If mom of 2 marines was really the mother of 2 marines, WHY would she work so hard making the world safe for al qaeda's whose ultimate goal is to destroy her sons. Doesn't make sense unless she's so liberal she cannot even defend her own in a war in which case her views do not merit consideration.
In the case of Lt Pantano, any kill resulting in a dead islamofascist is a "rightous" kill. Lt Pantano performed the duty he was trained for and ordered to perform by the preasident, the marine corps and the american people. Any rules of engagement that prevent a marine from performing his duty are the wrong ROE and the chain of command responsible needs to be facing courts martial.
Now that I look at it, she signed up on March 8th also. Strange that two people, one taking the side of the PC crowd of "wait, he may be guilty"m the other with a personal knowledge of the Lts reputation, show up on this forum for one post in forever, on the same day.
My guess is that "mama of 2 marines" and "dvldg36" are one and the same...probably an islamofascist plant or a lib (is there a differance?) trying to "sand bag Lt Pantano.
There is more than a little "reverse PC" in the squawking about this thing. Some facts that need to be pinned down are: (1) Did the accused order the cuffs be removed from the two detainees? (2) Did the accused then order the other two guys to go to other areas, leaving him alone with two now uncuffed detainees?
Dear Kimo,
If you go to the article from the Wilmington Star News and see Pantano's own words as to what happened, he will be in big trouble. Remember, he is charged with PREMEDITATED murder, so this is not a situation where split-second response was involved. The squad searching the house had already detained the two Iraqis and had put them in flexicuffs. At this point they were POWs and should have been taken away for questioning to see if they had information. Pantano was radioed, and when he arrives he UNCUFFS the detainees and has them search the vehicle to see if it's rigged, even though he is only standing 10' away and would be fizzled if something did go off. All he had to do was blow up the car, he'd have his prisoners and all would be well. However, according to the StarNews article...
http://www.starnewsonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050307/NEWS/50306014&SearchID=73201414598818
In the statement, Lt. Pantano said he could not see their hands and that they had their backs to him.
“After another time of telling them to be quiet, they quickly pivoted their bodies toward each other. They did this simultaneously, while speaking in muffled Arabic. I thought they were attacking me and I decided to fire my M-16A4 service rifle in self-defense,” Lt. Pantano’s statement reads. “I believed that they were attacking me, and I felt I was within the rules of engagement to fire.”
Lt. Pantano said in the statement he set his weapon to fire three-round bursts; his magazine held anywhere from 25 to 30 rounds of ammunition.
“I hit the men with my rounds and continued to fire until my first magazine was empty. I then changed magazines and continued to fire until the second magazine was empty … I had made a decision that when I was firing I was going to send a message to these Iraqis and others that when we say, ‘no better friend, no worse enemy,’ we mean it. I had fired both magazines into the men, hitting them with about 80 percent of my rounds.”
This is not self defense - this is an execution.
It’s amazing to see the mindset of some people who think Pantano is the Messiah - just because an American puts on a uniform doesn’t make him the All-American Hero. There are good guys and bad guys who happen to be in the military and when the bad guys screw up (the incident of the little girls in Okinawa who were raped by Marines immediately comes to mind) they must be punished. That’s why there are JAGs, courts martial and other nice little legal things.
The military academies have an honor code that requires all candidates to report cheating among their fellow candidates; does this code stop once they graduate and become officers? If you TRULY believe that Marines are men of honor, then it was this principle that caused Coburn to speak up. He has nothing to gain but the ire of those who feel he is a traitor to his country because he has a conscience and has refused to ride the Pantano love train being driven by his mommy and attorney.
I would dearly love to see the exhumation of the two Iraqis that Pantno shot and an autopsy performed to see exactly how many times they were shot and where.
Finally, for the record, I am a conservative who voted for Dubya (twice) and still have his bumper sticker on my car so I can continue to needle Kerry supporters, watch the "Factor" and boycott France. My mom and dad were Marines (met at Parris Island)and my uncle was a Lt. Colonel, almost a general, until he was diagnosed with leukemia and was dead within a year. Just because I don't buy into the Pantano hype and seek the truth hardly makes me an Al Queda supporter.
According to Pantano...
After learning that there were weapons in the house, Lt. Pantano ordered Corpsman Gobles to handcuff the men, identified as Hamaady Kareem and Tahah Ahmead Hanjil. The pair, believed to have resided in the insurgent-infested town of Latifiyah, resisted but were eventually subdued.
Shortly after that, reports state, Lt. Pantano ordered that the plastic flexicuffs binding the prisoners be cut, and he ordered them to search their own car.
Sgt. Coburn and Corpsman Gobles were ordered to take positions facing away from the car, and Lt. Pantano stood approximately 10 feet from it.
I believe that answers your questions.
Do you have additional knowledge of Pantano from people you know inside the Marine Corps?
I don't have any knowledge, but my son (posting no. 28) was with him at OCS and TBS.
Interestingly enough, I heard from the StarNewsOnline reporter, John DeSantis, when I wrote him and commented on his article. From what I can recall, he indicated that he had talked to a couple of Marines who had been around Pantano; one responder said he "had nothing to say that would help Lt. Pantano." What the translation of that is, I guess you'll have to judge for yourself.
There is a very personal animosity between you and Pantano. Why is that?
Mama...Enemy combatants out of uniform are spies and espionage agents. Nowhere has this or the consequences of allowing them to survive been demonstrated more clearly than in Iraq. Spies and espionage agents should be interrogated and executed on the spot. And yes, emptying 2 clips and displaying the cadavers on their vehiclewas the right thing to do. The ROE are deficient in this regard. Maybe you can explain the reason for this deficiency mama.
I don't know the guy and just because I wish to see both sides of the story regarding this issue doesn't mean I have any animosity towards him. As Will Rogers said, "all I know is what I read in the newspapers" and it is important to hear both sides of the story before passing judgment.
And as my son posted up above, he stated Pantano was a pretty congenial guy but he had some issues.
1) I am not your mama.
2) You are a very scary person.
That's not consistent with any hogans alley I've ever heard of
Seems that you ducked the question, but I will rephase my question to give the benefit of the doubt. Do you know someone in the Marines who was present when the incident with Pantano occurred?
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