Replies

THAT has some credibility. I will read that post of his much more closely now, and with an open mind.

Jeremiah, I wouldn't back peddle too fast. If mom of 2 marines was really the mother of 2 marines, WHY would she work so hard making the world safe for al qaeda's whose ultimate goal is to destroy her sons. Doesn't make sense unless she's so liberal she cannot even defend her own in a war in which case her views do not merit consideration.

In the case of Lt Pantano, any kill resulting in a dead islamofascist is a "rightous" kill. Lt Pantano performed the duty he was trained for and ordered to perform by the preasident, the marine corps and the american people. Any rules of engagement that prevent a marine from performing his duty are the wrong ROE and the chain of command responsible needs to be facing courts martial.

Dear Kimo,

If you go to the article from the Wilmington Star News and see Pantano's own words as to what happened, he will be in big trouble. Remember, he is charged with PREMEDITATED murder, so this is not a situation where split-second response was involved. The squad searching the house had already detained the two Iraqis and had put them in flexicuffs. At this point they were POWs and should have been taken away for questioning to see if they had information. Pantano was radioed, and when he arrives he UNCUFFS the detainees and has them search the vehicle to see if it's rigged, even though he is only standing 10' away and would be fizzled if something did go off. All he had to do was blow up the car, he'd have his prisoners and all would be well. However, according to the StarNews article...

http://www.starnewsonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050307/NEWS/50306014&SearchID=73201414598818

In the statement, Lt. Pantano said he could not see their hands and that they had their backs to him.

“After another time of telling them to be quiet, they quickly pivoted their bodies toward each other. They did this simultaneously, while speaking in muffled Arabic. I thought they were attacking me and I decided to fire my M-16A4 service rifle in self-defense,” Lt. Pantano’s statement reads. “I believed that they were attacking me, and I felt I was within the rules of engagement to fire.”

Lt. Pantano said in the statement he set his weapon to fire three-round bursts; his magazine held anywhere from 25 to 30 rounds of ammunition.

“I hit the men with my rounds and continued to fire until my first magazine was empty. I then changed magazines and continued to fire until the second magazine was empty … I had made a decision that when I was firing I was going to send a message to these Iraqis and others that when we say, ‘no better friend, no worse enemy,’ we mean it. I had fired both magazines into the men, hitting them with about 80 percent of my rounds.”

This is not self defense - this is an execution.

It’s amazing to see the mindset of some people who think Pantano is the Messiah - just because an American puts on a uniform doesn’t make him the All-American Hero. There are good guys and bad guys who happen to be in the military and when the bad guys screw up (the incident of the little girls in Okinawa who were raped by Marines immediately comes to mind) they must be punished. That’s why there are JAGs, courts martial and other nice little legal things.

The military academies have an honor code that requires all candidates to report cheating among their fellow candidates; does this code stop once they graduate and become officers? If you TRULY believe that Marines are men of honor, then it was this principle that caused Coburn to speak up. He has nothing to gain but the ire of those who feel he is a traitor to his country because he has a conscience and has refused to ride the Pantano love train being driven by his mommy and attorney.

I would dearly love to see the exhumation of the two Iraqis that Pantno shot and an autopsy performed to see exactly how many times they were shot and where.

Finally, for the record, I am a conservative who voted for Dubya (twice) and still have his bumper sticker on my car so I can continue to needle Kerry supporters, watch the "Factor" and boycott France. My mom and dad were Marines (met at Parris Island)and my uncle was a Lt. Colonel, almost a general, until he was diagnosed with leukemia and was dead within a year. Just because I don't buy into the Pantano hype and seek the truth hardly makes me an Al Queda supporter.

http://vaconservative.com/archives/2005/02/14/marine-lt-ilario-pantano-charged-with-murder/

I know Lt. Pantano from Officer Candidate School (OCS) and from The Basic School (TBS), so I have seen a different side of Lt. Pantano than they could have.

Lt. Pantano is everything that his friends say in the dorm; he is a great guy looking out and willing to help everyone. But in the field he is egocentric, pompous and a micro-manager. When we were at OCS and TBS he would kiss-up to the instructors and officers and say and do things to make himself look smarter. This may not seem like that such a bad thing, but in the Marine Corps, for an officer it is one of the worst; especially if your Marines think that you are more worried about your own career than their lives. In fact, Lt. Pantano was warned about the type of behavior he displayed in OCS by a Gunnery Sergeant. He was told that if he kept that it up that his Marines would see right through him and maybe one day they might frag him.

In TBS Lt. Pantano was a platoon commander for a field exercise; as platoon commander you are responsible for developing the plan and passing it down to the platoon sergeant to run rehearsals to prepare the platoon and supervising to make sure it is going the way he wants. Lt Pantano did’t like the way the rehearsals were going, so instead of pulling the palatoon sergeant aside and advising him, he took over running rehearsals. During the action, Lt. Pantano told his radio operator to wait for him while he ran to the front to get information. When an instructor saw that radio operator without the platoon commander and asked him why he was not with him? The radio operator informed the instructor that he was told to wait there. The instructor said to wait for the last man to pass count to ten and begin to follow the platoon that he was dead. Just then, the platoon was attacked, and Lt. Pantano began screaming for the radio operator. The instructor said to go ahead, and the radio operator began to run after Lt. Pantano. When he caught up to him, Lt. Pantano began screaming “When I call for you, you better run like you were a slave.” After the action was over, the instructors were debriefing the platoon; the instructors asked Lt. Pantano what he thinks went wrong. Lt. Pantano began to blame everything that went wrong on the platoon sergeant. “The platoon sergeant didn’t run rehearsals right. He couldn’t keep control of the Platoon. The radio operator was not there to give me information……” He took no responsibility for his actions.

During TBS everyone goes over to the FBI academy to go through Hogans Alley. This is a mock city where we practice patrolling with civilians and possible hostiles. Before beginning the patrol we are thoroughly briefed on the Rules Of Engagement (ROE). We were briefed that we were allowed to use deadly force only to protect life, and prevent the enemy from gaining control of a weapon. During the patrol you encounter a mob whose job it is to see if they can get you to violate the ROE’s.

During Lt. Pantano’s patrol, one of the men from the mob came up to him and was harassing him. He would try and put his hands on Lt. Pantano or to grab his rifle. The man was able to hit the magazine release button on Lt. Pantano’s rifle, he then picked up the magazine and began to run off with it. Lt. Pantano shot the man in the back ran over and picked up the magazine and reloaded his rifle. The company commander wasn’t too happy with Lt. Pantano’s actions and spoke to the company at great lengths about this with the company.

I have no opinion on the guilt or innocence of Lt. Pantano, but I can see, and I am not surprised, that someone from his own platoon would turn him in. I would caution you before you characterize the Marine as disgruntled and is motivated by revenge. He may or may not be. He could just be unwilling to back up Lt. Pantano’s story after he lost confidence in him. This is just some background information on Lt. Pantano from someone who has been through intensive training with him.

Comment by dvldog36 — 3/10/2005 @ 10:56 pm

Looks like a cut and paste job from one board to another. (post # 31)