Posted on 02/13/2005 10:41:05 AM PST by nsmart
The FairTax is the non-partisan national sales tax proposal that would replace all federal income taxes. These include personal, estate, gift, self-employment, alternative minimum, capital gains, FICA, and corporate and death taxes.
(Excerpt) Read more at WWW.FAIRTAX.ORG ...
"But the nutty professor is saying prices will drop 20-30%."
Which is quite a bit different than the 30 - 40% that you are using. Mind telling us where that range came from?
BTW, the "nutty professor" is the former chairman of Harvard University's economics department. Would you mind sharing YOUR professional qualifications in the field of economics so that the thread viewers can make up their own minds relative to credibility?
"Price going down 30-40% the first year is purs bullcrap."
"Who is saying that?"
"Dale Jorgenson, former Harvard University economics department chairman, projected an average product price reduction of 20 percent to 30 percent in the first year after adoption of the FairTax."
We have established that Dr. Jorgenson has forecast a 20 - 30% decrease in prices for US produced goods. We are trying to determine how 20 - 30% got changed to 30 - 40%.
Any insight into that, AR? As someone who hates exaggeration, you should be as interested in that as the rest of us, right?
"What will all the accountants and tax lawyers do for livings? ;^)"
A friend of mine and FairTax supporter is a CPA who earns more than half his income from doing tax work. He tells me that he isn't worried about replacing his tax revenue at all in the kind of booming economic environment that the FairTax will create.
"It is still fantasy bullshit, either way. We will be lucky if prices stay the same."
How would you like a public forum to espouse your anti-FairTax views? We have been trying to find someone - anyone - who would attempt to defend the current system.
Your status quo buddies, Your Nightmare and LewisLynn, have been offerred that opportunity and neither has the kohones to appear in public and present their qualifications in front of a live audience.
How about you, AR? Would you like to defend the current system in a live public debate? You can attack away and tell everyone how "nutty" Dr. Jorgenson is and how thorough your research is.
"I dont know how far along it is or if is even in a committee"
It is in the Ways and Means Committee and has about 20 co-sponsors. There were about 55 co-sponsors in the last session and, hopefully, we will get back to that level within the next couple of months. This session of congress is barely 30 days old. All bills had to be reentered in the new session of congress.
You have my sincerest apologies.No biggie. This stuff is complicated, no one can know all the details.
"Being able to hold a trademark or patent for 50 years is absurd."
It is my understanding that US patent law recently changed from a 17 year term to 20 years. I don't have any knowledge of 50 year patents. Where did you get that information from?
pigdog: "In addition it does not take the effect of hidden taxes into account which many studies have shown to be from 20 to 40% of the price of things you buy."
And another thread, post 1:
There are many reasons why prices will fall from 20-40% once the FairTax is the law of the land:
"What these VOTERS are unaware of are the "hidden" taxes they pay. Eventhough they may have been totally taken off the income tax rolls, they still have 15.3% taken in payroll taxes and with what income is left over, they pay an additional 20-40% for every good and service they buy."
There's more if you care
Another Boston Tea Party sounds like a great idea. The colonists were taxed at a much lower rate than we are today.
I wouldn't mind that at all. Some of those guys should be embarrassed by the crap they spew.
Aha - it indeed is easy to type the wrong # - I'm glad it was a mistake and not your position.
In the absence of this information, I was left thinking you meant it - apologies.
"I think all would agree that there will be beneficial rollback of the price of goods and services due to competitive forces and the tax and regulatory relief the plan affords. But I don't see any debate on the stimulative effect of taxing consumption vs. earnings. That, to me, is the clincher of the whole argument. The naysayers are not seeing the forest for the trees. When you have phenomenal prosperity and freedom from intrusive taxes you can afford to pay a little more for your next boat."
All good points, groanup, but I think that another huge benefit is that we once and for all eliminate the advantage that our tax system affords to foreign producers at the expense of our own domestic producers. This is something that we have done to ourselves and we as a nation can correct it. With globalization being THE economic megatrend of the first part of the 21st centruy, it is crazy to continue in this vein.
"I can tell you precisely how much I paid in income and payroll taxes last year."
So how much did you pay in income and payroll taxes imbedded in the prices of your consumption items? How much did you pay indirectly in compliance costs?
"This bill will destroy the new home business."
Who was it who was saying that they hated the exaggerations? Oh, I forgot, you only hate the exaggerations of the FairTaxers.
"I gave you my anaylsis. You suck 2.5 Trillion out of the economy, it will have the same net effect on prices no matter what your method of suxation is."
Now you have me confused. By this statement, it sounds like you are in agreement that the net affect to prices is neutral while the gross price will be decreased. I think the claim of Fair Tax supporters is consistent with your analysis, this is a revenue neutral proposal. The benefit is the plain site of government cost to the citizens....
All those posts say that the taxes imbedded in the prices of what we buy can range up to 40%. Dr. Jorgenson says that (ore-tax) prices will fall 20-30% in the first year. Those two statements are NOT contradictory, as Dr. Jorgenson, I believe, says that price declines could well continue after the first year. Dr. Jorgenson does NOT, however, say that price declines will go up to 40% in the first year.
In effect, the price declines he predicts in the first year can be considered conservative.
"I wouldn't mind that at all. Some of those guys should be embarrassed by the crap they spew."
Terrific! A guardian of the status quo who is willing to show his face in public and tell everyone what a wonderful tax system we have now.
Send me your contact info.
"You are so full of it. The guy said prices would drop 20-30 percent. He did not say pre-tax."
If you live in a state with sales tax, do you consider that additional cost, added at the register, part of the price of the good? Or do you consider it a sales tax, above and beyond the price?
"Yes they would. The FairTax requires all income earned in the US by foreign corporations and non-resident aliens to be taxed at the FairTax rate."
Can you show this to me? I have a hard time believing that a bill eliminating income tax (personal and corporate) being able to enforce an income tax.
Could each of you please provide us with your definition of wages?
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