Posted on 02/07/2005 9:41:57 PM PST by quidnunc
If George W. Bush is a cowboy, then one of his most trusted hands just brought in a stray. Thanks to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice's recent trip to Europe, Germany is now promising to rejoin the herd migrating toward Iraqi democracy. This was not how it was supposed to be. Last year John Kerry claimed only he could bring in the wayward European cattle.
It turns out, though, that one of the chief architects of President Bush's "unilateral" policy is also a good diplomat. Ms. Rice won applause in every European country she visited. "We have a lot of experience with the building of functional institutions for countries," said Germany's Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder. "This is a kind of assistance that we would like to make available to the Iraqi government." He added: "I very much am of the opinion, and we both, I think, know that the international community of states is now called upon to come in and help, and Germany certainly will do so."
The "international community" is now behind the policy of building a stable and peaceful democracy in Iraq. What a turnabout this is from just a few months ago. Expect President Bush to find a warm reception on his coming European tour.
It should be said that this was the likely result for whoever won the White House last November. Europe cannot long afford to isolated itself from the United States. Yet let us not discount Ms. Rice's magnanimity. Her poise, grace and eloquence make it easier for Germany to do what it would do anyway. But the bottom line is that Mr. Schroeder is promising to train Iraqi troops (albeit outside of Iraq) and provide other assistance, all while praising the recent elections there …
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(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ...
"I hope you're right, but when the majority of the German people think the US is worse than tyrants like Saddam Hussein or the theocratic Iranian regime or terrorists like Al Qaeda, then I don't see much room for friendship with Germans."
Blame it on our history and our education during the past 50 years...
What did you expect? Teaching 3 generations that leading an
agressive war is WRONG, and then to blame them for their protests
against a war which is wrong (in our view) is a bit naive.
And when it comes to "friendship": It takes two to tango,
and calling a friend Weasel or Coward, as soon as he disagrees is not very freundlich.
In fact, most Germans think "They ordered the meal, now they should eat it"...
Hun
Well, you want no pretending? Then you should mention the nice shakehands between Rumsfeld and Saddam Hussein - pure irony that Rummy now is the chief of Saddams guards, isn´t it? The US government and the German government made nice deals with Saddam, when it was "chic" back in the 80´s. But not even the CIA reports that the German government or one of its authorities made or supported business with the regime after 1991. You should be that fair and mention this, too. Germany sold no chemical plants, and you know that. Y´all who claim that Schröder had economic interests in preventing the war should remember that he came in office in late 1998, and that before that it was Chancellor Kohl in charge, who is, I may remind you, the bearer of the US Medal of Freedom. Have you been awarded with the Medal of Freedom? No? Then stop lying about those honorable persons who have been, please.
Are you an elected politician who may speak for millions of Americans? Well, Secretary Rice is, and I rather believe her than you.
And finally, have you ever been to Germany? I doubt that, otherwise you would have learned how friendly the personal relations between citizens of our two nations are.
Oh, so the Italians and Poles are no longer 'european'. And if I remember correctly there were other european countries that sent support into the country. Nice try but if you had your way, Saddam would still be running his rape houses and jailing terrified children to retaliate against their parents. Some friend you are to the Iraqis
well every country has economic and politicle interests. In the case of the middle east there is no western country that didn´t take part in that game.
So i can show you the pictures of rumsfeld with Hussein and then you post the ones with Chiraq and i am sure we find pictures of german politicians with hussein. The sam with the iran before the islamic revolution in 1978.
Then i could say look for example at the homepage of the herritage foundation. There you can find the numbers of the countries that benefite the most of the oil for food programm and you will find that the US imported most of the Iraqi oil. So we can continue for years but it makes no sence. None of our countries is without sin and can throw ( this is totaly wrong written isn´t it) a stone.
I'm sorry, but to say that war is never justified is simply the wrong lesson from history. It is precisely because there was appeasement and lack of response from the civilized world to an aggressive dictator like Hitler who cared less about civilized norms that allowed him to do the damage that he did, and only military response brought him to heal. Similarly with Saddam Hussein, if the UN is going to tell him in twelve resolutions to stop his criminal actions, and then turns around and says that their will be no enforcement in the event of non-coimpliance, that is NOT the rule of law in the least. And the Europeans are currently making the same tragic mistake by coddling Iran rather than retaining the right of the international community to enforce non-proliferation, through military force (the French say they won't even agree to SANCTIONS, for heaven's sake!). What kind of rule of law in the international sphere is that, where uncivilized thugs are not kept in line and the only big country (and it's allies) who is willing to do something about malfeasers is itself demonized. It is a totally twisted and screwed up and immoral view of the world. And the ONLY reason that you guys are called weasels and the like is because the German media and public started demonizing America and Americans. There was no polite expression og disagreement. There wass complete and utter vilification, questioning of motives, portraying us as evil, ridiculing the Christian religion that Germans have abandoned. You guys started this, and it is that very unfreundlichkeit which took me and many Americans by surprise. We had always thought of the Germans as friends, but this vilification and backstabbing is hard to forgive or forget.
could you name the top 5 oil exporters to the US
Who are the top 5 oil producers in the world?
Try without googling (cheating) :)
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Some of us are challenged by your "unique" point of view.
yore govermint is full of poop and seems ewe like that.
Now that the fighting is mostly done and the major costs have been added to someone else's tab, France and Germany want to stroll in for the cake.
Predictable.
BZZZZTT!
Thanks for playing - there's a wonderful parting gift for you backstage...
Bet it's noisy there!
Thank you for your swift reply.
"I'm sorry, but to say that war is never justified is simply the wrong lesson from history"
Agreed.
That's why I wrote "agressive wars".
Saddam, even beeing the
beast and bloody dictator he was, was no thread to US soil
or his neighbours, especially after a lost war and 12 years
of sanctions.
The problem is, that people just don`t believe in an
US "moral superiority" any more. They heard false reasons
for an agressive war, and that made them just sceptical.
The Powerpoint Show at the UN has not been forgotten...
Anyway, I understand your point of view.
The real problem is, I repeat, that the US has lost it's
moral credibility. The ppl start to ask, are reading the history books with a different view.
Some simple examples, to make a long story short:
We all used to play 'Cowboy & Indian' in our youth.
Now, ppl say that it`s not PC to glorify a genocide...
The Iranians are trying to get Nukes? Sehr klug, ppl say,
after what has happened to Iraq and NOT to N.Korea.
Why shouldn`t the Mullahs have Nukes, the US also has them... and the US is the only nations which owns AND
have used them already...
I hope you understand what I`m trying to say.
We have paid a bitter price for believing in
the wrong leaders in the past, and ppl are
just not willing to repeat old mistakes, even
if it`s the wrong one they are blaming.
Regards,
Hun
I LOVE lying scumtrolls.
They have that crunchy texture of several day old dried mud.
Seems like we should be entitled to tax them somehow.
Hun,
We're fine with eating the meal. We just don't like the Germans or French trying to help themselves to a desert they did not pay for. It should hardly suprise us though given the history of the last century.
I get the feeling that Germany no longer feels like a US ally. Once the US pulls all of its troops out of Europe you will once again be bickering amongst yourselves and dragging the world into your problems.
I am from German/Irish stock, and I understand Germans fairly well. I love Germans. I love their food and I love to perceive myself as being of German heritage. Here is how I see it from my vantage point... Once the USSR is not perceived as a threat to Germany, then Germany will no longer welcome being under the "umbrella" of what it begrudginlly perceives as a superrior power in the USA. Other than the British, the rest of old NATO suffers from an inferriority complex. I'm much happier being a German-American (there's a word for ya - gee we're so put upon - waaaaa!) than I would be as a German in Germany.
As for NEW NATO countries, they're tickled pink to be allied with the US after what they went through with the USSR.
The Wirtschaftswunder was really indirectly created by that hated country called the USA. In order to rebuild the country as fast as possible, the currency exchange was artificially set at DM 4.6 to $1. This encouraged many large American firms to move production to Germany, as well as open the US market for their goods. That forgotten fact contributed a lot more than the always touted Marshall plan.
There was only one problem with the "Wirtschaftswunder", it didn't come with instructions. They squandered their new found wealth on social promises, they couldn't keep.
The average German believed that they were destined to a higher and cleaner work and brought in the Guestworkers to do the slave labor. ( Hadn't the world heard that master race concept before? )
The facts that Germany can't attract international or for that matter national investments are numerous.
An aging citizenry which is bankrupting their social systems (They became too lazy to breed)
Laws that stifle employment.
Declining productivity.
High cost of production.
Mandated work hours, wages, high taxes, laws that we could only shake our heads at, etc, etc.
The future is bleak for France and Germany. They need the new EU countries to rape them through taxation in the future in order to keep the "Leaders of the EU" (France/Germany) afloat.
Had Hitler thought of that, he could have had all of Europe without firing a shot. The only problem is: Unrest and/or revolution will come to Europe in the future. One way or the other, bloody or not so bloody.
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