Posted on 01/31/2005 8:17:49 PM PST by newgeezer
NEW ORLEANS (Reuters) - The head of Nissan Motor Co., breaking ranks with some of his leading rivals, said on Saturday that building fuel-sipping hybrid vehicles makes little sense in today's world because of their high costs.
"They make a nice story, but they're not a good business story yet because the value is lower than their costs," said Nissan Chief Executive Carlos Ghosn.
Nissan will, in fact, start manufacturing a gas-electric hybrid version of its Altima sedan for the U.S. market in 2006.
But Ghosn said the model was only intended to help Japan's second-largest automaker comply with strict fuel economy and emissions standards in states like California, not because he expects it to be a money-maker.
Nissan will license some technology for the hybrid Altima from Toyota Motor Corp., which is the world leader in hybrid production along with Honda Motor Co. Ltd.
The hybrids made by Toyota and Honda are in high demand, but production levels are still relatively small.
Toyota plans to nearly double production of its hybrid Prius car for the U.S. market this year, with production totaling some 100,000 vehicles.
Ford Motor Co. is alone among U.S. automakers in producing mass-market hybrid models; Ford recently announced plans to introduce four new models between this year and 2008.
Ghosn's comments, which are likely to draw criticism from environmental groups, came in an address to the National Automobile Dealers Association, which opened its annual convention in New Orleans on Saturday.
In his speech, he noted that only about 88,000 of the 16.9 million light vehicles sold in the United States last year were hybrids, adding that they are still considered "niche" products and something way outside the automotive mainstream.
He also poured cold water on hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, which many automakers see as the industry's next big technological breakthrough.
"The cost to build one fuel cell car is about $800,000. Do the math and you figure out that we will have to reduce the cost of that car by more than 95 percent in order to gain widespread marketplace acceptance," Ghosn said.
Ghosn, who is credited with a dramatic turnaround at Nissan, is poised to take over as chief executive at France's Renault SA in May.
His future role, simultaneously running operations at two major automakers, is thought to be an industry first.
Nissan -- owned 44 percent by Renault -- scored the biggest sales jump of any major car maker in the United States last year, with a 24 percent surge to 986,000 vehicles.
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For the short term, what you say is absolutely true. In the intermediate term, I've often wondered about a diesel powered turbine-electric drivetrain. The engine, because of its high speed, could then be very small.
BTTT!!!!!
BTTT!!!!!!
If we'd followed the same head-in-the sand line of thought that I see on this thread by some (unga-bunga! Change bad!), we'd still be riding horses.......
LOL...
To me, anything that gets us to conserve fuel so we can tell the Saudis and the rest of the oil-saturated Islamic nutjob world to eat their oil is alright by me, whether it be diesel, hybrids, hydraulic hybrids, electric, horses, bikes, or walking....
And we could probably get significant savings just by getting everyone to get a tune-up and inflate their tires properly....
LQ
Ping.
This got more traffic than I would've guessed.
Why? Are you afraid of lead?
I wonder if they all leave the engines running when they are parked.
Why diesel owners do that? Do they enjoy the stink, or is it that obnoxious sound?
Hang on here. A forty mile daily commute x 5 times per week =200 miles per week or 866 miles per month (4.3 weeks in avg month)excluding weekend driving. That comes out to x 86.6 mpg avg (866 divided by 10). Is that correct?
The rest of the world is not going to accept the fact that China's internal problems are a reason to continue its policy of undercutting the world's markets by paying its citizens slave wages.
"He's wrong and his days are numbered at Nissan"
I don't think he is. I think the demand for hybrids is primarily a result of government incentive, nothing more.
The point the CEO is making is that the savings in gasoline does not offset the increased maintenance and acquisition cost. He is on solid footing with that statement. The only wild card is will gov'ts continue to subsidize their use.
Here in Northern Virginia, hybrid owners can cruise unmolested in the High-Occupancy Vehicle lanes with no passengers.
This privilege is likely to be yanked in the near future, and I'm betting that so will the demand for hybrid vehicles. The target, last report I saw, was July 2006. I suspect the demand has already fallen as this word gets out. I'm looking forward to seeing the figures as they come available. A hybrid has little appeal if it must compete in the real world on a cost basis.
Their increased cost comes from increased complexity over a conventional vehicle, as well as periodic replacement of things like batteries. A hybrid manufactured in China will cost more than a conventional car manufactured in China, so it will cost more - and lower costs, even marginally lower costs, are why manufacturers go to China in the first place.
Not sure it would matter much. They would just up the price of oil to make up some of the difference. Also as the 3rd world countries improve their economies their demand will increase to make up for our lessening demand. Only after we come up with the technology which renders their oil obsolete will we be in a position to do as you say. Further, if we spread the technology around the world then in short order the Arabs will be roaming the desert as they were 100 years ago. They have nothing but oil and once it is no longer needed they are done and will, I believe pay a dear price for their actions of the past 25 years.
Kill the heretic!
But how reliable are they?
The idea you talked about was tried on locomotives called diesel hydraulics back in the late 1950's and 1960's. Alas, they weren't paragons of reliability, as Southern Pacific found out when they tried a number of Kraus-Maffei diesel-hydraulic locomotives back then.
Besides, wouldn't all the weight of the hydraulics add weight to the car and also the hydraulic fluid could present a serious fire/toxic substance hazard?
Whazzat?
"Ghosn, who is credited with a dramatic turnaround at Nissan, is poised to take over as chief executive at France's Renault SA in May."
Well, Duh. If he's defecting to FRANCE in May, of course he needs to get a few parting shots in. You stupid, gullible Americans!
FWIW, I sent this on to my EnviroWacko brother in law. You should hear his head explode in a few moments. ;)
Absolutely VW TDI have been making 50 +/- mpg for YEARS now... Its idiotic to be wasting resources time and money on gas electric hybrids that don't outperform, and are far more costly to produce, and maintain... and lets not even get into what do you do with all those batteries when they die.
I wish I kept mine.....it was given to me back in the early 70's as a gift for graduation. I recently saw it and it is still a beautiful car.
I also had a 1966 that had the 427. I had it long before the prices went throught the roof. I could buy a house for what it is worth now.
But it was a real fun car...but highly impractical except to pick up women in!
Ghosn is correct in his analysis, but also probably correct in his actions to develop a hybrid version of the Altima. Why? Advertising. The big three U.S. automakers missed the boat on hybrids, because they missed that point. Toyota looked at there multibillion dollar advertising budget, and decided to engineer a car with some of it that would get some press, and they succeeded.
If what he writes is true, it seems like the guy is right. Either get the hybrids out of the HOV lane, or forfeit federal funding.Hybrids should not be allowed in HOV lanes--check the rules
January 30, 2005 1:10 am
Hybrid vehicles should not be allowed to operate on the high-occupancy vehicle lanes without restriction ["Virginia mulls new challenges to hybrids in HOV lanes," Jan. 7].
A U.S. Department of Transportation publication, "Federal-Aid Highway Program Guidance on HOV Lanes," states, "In accepting federal-aid funds, agencies have agreed to manage, operate, and maintain HOV lanes as they were originally planned, designed, constructed, and approved."
It continues, "a State may permit a vehicle with fewer than 2 occupants to operate in HOV lanes if the vehicle is properly labeled and certified as an Inherently Low Emission Vehicle (ILEV)."
ILEVs essentially have no fuel- vapor emissions and have a single dedicated gaseous fuel (not gasoline) system. Furthermore, they cannot operate on more than one fuel and/or on an alcohol fuel.
The Environmental Protection Agency is the only agency that can certify a vehicle as an ILEV, and no hybrid vehicles are currently certified as ILEVs. Because hybrid vehicles use conventional gasoline, they cannot be certified as ILEVs.
The Department of Motor Vehicles qualifies a vehicle for a clean special-fuel license plate only if it is exclusively powered by compressed natural gas, electricity, ethane, hydrogen, hythane, liquefied natural gas, liquefied petroleum gas, methane, solar energy, or a combination of two types of clean special fuels.
Even with those requirements clearly stated, DMV still classifies the Honda Civic, Honda Insight, and Toyota Prius as "clean special fuel" vehicles even though they use conventional gasoline.
Based on this information, the hybrid vehicles do not meet the requirements and should not be exempt from the same passenger requirements as every other vehicle using the HOV lanes.
Barry Wass
Stafford
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