Scientists Speak About Evolution (Quoted Admissions Of Evolutions Condemning Evolutionary Theory

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[Laissez-faire capitalist]

Top flight scientists have something to tell you about evolution. Such statements will never be found in the popular magazines, alonside georgeous paintings of ape-man and Big Bangs and solemn pronuncements about millions of years for this rock and that fish. Instead they are generally reesrved only for professional books and journals.

Most scientists are working in very narrow fields; they do not see the overall picture, and assume, even though their field does not prove evolution, that perhaps other areas of science probably vindicate it. They are well-meaning men. The biologists and geneticists know their facts, and research does not prove evolution, but assume that geology does. The geologists know their field does not prove veolution, but hope that the biologists and geneticists have proven it. Those who do know the facts, fear to disclose them to the general public, lest they be fired. But they do write articles in their own professional journals and books, condemning evolutionary theory.

Included below are a number of admissions by leading evolutionists of earlier decades, such as *Charles Darwin*, *Austin Clark, or *Fred Hoyle. The truth is that evolutionits cannot make scientific facts fit the theory.

An asterisk (*) by a name indicates that person is not known to be a creationist. Of over 4,000 quotations in the set of books this encyclopedia is based on (see BOOKSTORE), only 164 statements are by creationists.

[metacognative]

The sun's energy powers plants and weather. How does it turn algae into ecosystems? Can it turn lead into gold as well?

[VadeRetro]

Still no example of one fossil transitioning into another. Yet according to darwinite myth, all fossils should blend back toward the tree trunk.

How many times do I have to catch one guy on one afternoon?

Taxonomy, Transitional Forms, and the Fossil Record.

Here's one relevant section among several:

Moving further up the taxonomic hierarchy, the condylarths and primitive carnivores (creodonts, miacids) are very similar to each other in morphology (Fig. 9, 10), and some taxa have had their assignments to these orders changed. The Miacids in turn are very similar to the earliest representatives of the Families Canidae (dogs) and Mustelidae (weasels), both of Superfamily Arctoidea, and the Family Viverridae (civets) of the Superfamily Aeluroidea. As Romer (1966) states in Vertebrate Paleontology (p. 232), "Were we living at the beginning of the Oligocene, we should probably consider all these small carnivores as members of a single family." This statement also illustrates the point that the erection of a higher taxon is done in retrospect, after sufficient divergence has occurred to give particular traits significance.

Figure 10. Comparison of skulls of the early ungulates (condylarths) and carnivores. (A) The condylarth Phenacodus possessed large canines as well as cheek teeth partially adapted for herbivory. (B) The carnivore-like condylarth Mesonyx. The early Eocene creodonts (C) Oxyaena and (D) Sinopa were primitive carnivores apparently unrelated to any modern forms. (E) The Eocene Vulpavus is a representative of the miacids which probably was ancestral to all living carnivore groups. (From Vertebrate Paleontology by Alfred Sherwood Romer published by The University of Chicago Press, copyright © 1945, 1966 by The University of Chicago. All rights reserved. This material may be used and shared with the fair-use provisions of US copyright law, and it may be archived and redistributed in electronic form, provided that this entire notice, including copyright information, is carried and provided that the University of Chicago Press is notified and no fee is charged for access. Archiving, redistribution, or republication of this text on other terms, in any medium, requires both the consent of the authors and the University of Chicago Press.)

Miller is saying precisely that the farther back one explores along a branch, the more a thing looks like its contemporaries on other branches. IOW, the branches visibly reconverge as one approaches the branch point, exactly the thing you said doesn't happen.

We see this at least as well in dinosaurs and birds, for instance, where the convergence (as you go back in time) produces specimens almost completely ambiguous whether they should be lumped in the "bird" or "dinosaur" bin.

The things you're saying aren't true. Why doesn't that matter?

[metacognative]

What are you talking about? The Light of the world or something? Cut the Irish coffees for a while...

[WildTurkey]

The things you're saying aren't true. Why doesn't that matter?

See my #220. M was nailed and he won't even apologize.

[VadeRetro]

Shells getting lined up by size is your best example of evolution. You guys are in a sad situation.

Pretending you can't read is pretty standard creationist BS. Pretending you can't read the pictures is going the standard one better.

The things you say are not true. Why doesn't that matter?

[metacognative]

I know you want to believe those skulls are relate somehow. Maybe they are, where's the proof? We've had a century and a half to find an existing 'halfway' species.
All we see in the real world are discrete familiies.

[balrog666]

You are truly amazing!

It is truly a wonder that you have reached this point in your life without ever showing the slightest interest in nature or science itself. You have even reached your age and societal status without acquiring the slightest bit of an education in even "popular" science. But you persist in assuming that it must be someone else's fault that you're considered ignorant even for an inbred, illiterate, backwoods, pigfarmer!

And further, somehow, it's our fault that we can't, or won't, break down a lifetime's learning into 15-second soundbites for you? That we can't pound facts into your head while you simultaneously deny they even exist?

Call us when you wake up from your dream of Fantasyland. No, wait, don't wake up - you should be preserved as a warning to little children who don't do their homework - AAAARGH! This could be you!

[VadeRetro]

His 233 explains it. But he forgot to add that 1) the Lord will forgive false witness if it's for Him, and 2) all the good people on his side already know he's doing the right thing; that's not even at issue.

[WASH]

[js1138]

The sun's energy powers plants and weather. How does it turn algae into ecosystems? Can it turn lead into gold as well?

Where exactly do you think lead and gold come from?

[bobdsmith]

"Still no example of one fossil transitioning into another."

Do you even accept that fossils can be identified as transitional?

If not then you are wasting everyones time by asking for fossil examples that you are always, no matter what they look like, going to say they aren't transitional.

If you do accept transitional fossils can be identified then what characteristics do you think would show beyond doubt that a fossil is transitional?

[ValenB4]

"Still no example of one fossil transitioning into another."

Being that they are dead and innanimate matter, fossils do not "transition" into other fossils. However, living organisms do undergo mutations. We see them in the laboratory everyday. Some mutations are good, some bad, and some neutral. Sometimes a series of small mutations applied over time can lead to a new trait that enables an organism to better survive, perhaps a longer fin, or sharper teeth.

[metacognative]

If you thought we were discussing nuclear fusion..this is out of hand and I may come back later....

[VadeRetro]

I know you want to believe those skulls are relate somehow.

"Somehow?" They're recently diverged and look related. They look a lot more like each other than do modern ungulates and carnivores. This is what you said does not happen.

Maybe they are, where's the proof?

In the fossil record, the stuff I've shown you and the stuff still waiting in the wings.

We've had a century and a half to find an existing 'halfway' species.

Indeed we have. Lots of finds in that time, too. Finds in all kinds of intermediate positions along the tree of life as it was known in 1859, finds which are just what we should have found if Darwin was right when he said in 1859 that such intermediate forms must once have lived.

[js1138]

If you thought we were discussing nuclear fusion..this is out of hand and I may come back later....

You asked about things becoming more complex things. The underlying assumption is that this can't happen in the "natural" universe. How much energy does it take to transmute hydrogen into plutonium, and what is the probability that this will happen by chance?

This is the basic mode of reasoning behind ID.

[VadeRetro]

If not then you are wasting everyones time by asking for fossil examples that you are always, no matter what they look like, going to say they aren't transitional.

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winnah!

Step One: Claim that something reasonably to be expected in the fossil record is lacking and scientists are in a panic to explain why it isn't there. If that slides unchallenged, you win. If challenged, go to Step Two.

Step Two: Fossils seeming to show transitions don't mean anything.

[bobdsmith]

Its the best response to the typical "if evolution is true where are all the transitionals?" question.

Just ask "well first what do you think a transitional would look like?"

And immediately they try and escape the topic for they know if they actually make their claim testable, ie put their ss on the line, it could very well be refuted.

[balrog666]

The things you say are not true. Why doesn't that matter?

I wonder if they are this stupid, this obvious, or this offensive in the Religion Forum? I'd check myself but I might get some on me.

[Dimensio]

Perhaps as I study evolution more, I simply become more aware of just how dishonest creationists are about it.

[js1138]

A transitional fossil would probably look like a member of a ring species, but that wouldn't do either, because ring species are in transition right now, and aren't fossils.