Slaying of 4 may be tied to (Islamic) religious extremism (NJ Christian family had throats slit)

Islamic extremists may have murdered four members of a Coptic Orthodox family found bound, gagged and with their throats slit on Friday in their Jersey City home, a law-enforcement official familiar with the case said.

The official confirmed that Hudson County investigators, as well the FBI, were "knee-deep" in pulling computer records and were coming to terms with the possibility that the family may have been targeted for death because of exchanges about religion in an Internet chat room.

The official cautioned, though, that investigators have not ruled out other possibilities, such as a robbery gone awry.

Hossam Armanious, 47, Amal Garas, 37, and their daughters Sylvia, 15, and Monica, 8, were found dead in their Oakland Avenue home early Friday after family members alerted police that nobody had heard from them in days.

First Assistant Hudson County Prosecutor Guy Gregory declined to discuss any details of the case, other than to confirm that police have ruled out a dispute the family had with a former tenant as a possible motive. He cautioned against speculating about the motive behind the murders.

"This is a very delicate investigation and one where we have spent hours at the scene collecting evidence and with the evidence collection complete, we're moving to bring in people that we feel need to be interviewed," Gregory said. "It's unfortunate that people are speculating."

But as the theory spread that revenge and religion were the driving forces behind one of the most heinous murders in the county's long history, fear enveloped the city's Coptic community.

Friends, relatives and co-worshippers of the devout family spent much of Saturday wondering how the seemingly upstanding Armanious family could fall victim to such a shockingly brutal crime. Several spoke of Hossam Armanious' participation in heated discussions about the Islamic faith on the Paltalk.com messenger service and threats he received for expressing his views about the religion.

Milad Garas, an uncle of Amal Garas, said Saturday that he was told investigators are probing whether the killings could have been prompted in part by the chat sessions. He also pointed to a passage in the Muslim holy book, the Quran, that details how enemies should be killed - bound and their throats slit, an assertion that drew a rebuttal from some Islamic scholars, but was supported by others.

A translation of passage 47:4 of the Quran reads in part: "Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers [in fight], smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly [on them]."

"There is a very wide range of interpretation of that, and it depends on where people are in the spectrum," said Frederick M. Denny, a professor of religious studies at the University of Colorado and author of more than a dozen books on Islam. "If they were going toward the extremist side, it could lead someone to believe it is justified. ... There are those that take that [passage] quite literally."

The close-knit Coptic community promised protests if the religious revenge theory proves accurate.

"If it turns out they were killed for religion, then we will [protest]," said Ayman Garas, Amal's younger brother. "We have to be patient, we can't do anything stupid. ... But it looks like it is religion, maybe."

The Armanious family moved to the United States from Egypt in part to escape religious persecution. Hossam Armanious had sensed a rise in anti-Christian extremism and wanted to make a better life for his family in America, Ayman Garas said.

"What I really want to know is: How?'' he said. "We just can't believe it at this point. Everything has passed like a dream."

The details of what may have been said in the chat sessions were not known Saturday night.

Fred Ayad, deacon of the couple's St. George Coptic Orthodox Church, said that the entire community was in a "panic" over the apparent targeting of the family, as well as the murders of a Coptic deacon in December and a Coptic cabdriver in late 2003.

Prosecutor Gregory said the conjecture about the murders is hampering his office's investigation, which he said has been exhaustive.

Copts are Egyptian Christians, a minority group of about 6 million in a nation of 60 million, and have been killed in religious rioting and during attacks on Christian churches by Islamic militants. Coptic leaders also say they lack representation in the Egyptian government and are treated like second-class citizens.

Over the past decade, Copts have increasingly immigrated to the United States. Currently, they number about 1 million in this country. Coptic Orthodox churches are scattered throughout the nation and, while there is no official count, Coptic Web sites list about 10 large congregations in New Jersey and about 20 in the tri-state area.

Islamic leaders said Saturday that the murders could not have been the work of someone inspired by the Quran.

"We are not a bloody people," said Ahmed Shedeed, director of the Islamic Center of Jersey City. "This is not from the Quran. This is not from Islam at all."

Shedeed, who is Egyptian, said his group recently co-founded a social service organization with local Coptic churches, called Egyptian Family.

"We are trying to get religious leaders from both communities to meet on a monthly basis to break the ice between the people," he said. "We meet as individuals, but as organizations we never have done such a thing. We are trying to show that Egyptians together can benefit."

Shedeed said that as part of that effort, he attended Christmas Eve services at St. George's this year.

Asked about passages in the Quran that may suggest murdering non-believers in a manner that resembles the family's deaths, he replied, "The Quran talks about people fighting in the battle of war. It's not talking about people who live next to you. ... This has nothing to do with our community at all."

"The Quran stands very firmly against taking human life," said noted Islamic author Zayn Kassam, chairwoman of the religious studies department of Pomona College in California. "If someone read a verse and used it to justify the killing of four people, I believe that person is unbalanced. ... There are very few Muslims who would support this sort of thing."

On Saturday, the family received mourners at the church, as friends left lighted candles and flowers in front of the home. Neighbors talked of an exhaustive police investigation, with a former Armanious tenant, Nelly Ramirez, saying police had questioned her, her son and her son's girlfriend.

Meanwhile, friends of Sylvia, a high school sophomore who would have turned 16 on Saturday, lingered in front of the house, alternately crying and laughing. They talked of an extremely gifted teen who recently won a trip to Italy from the National Honor Society for a series of essays she wrote on topics such as Shakespeare and Charles Dickens.

"She used to write all the time," said her friend Jankil Patel, 15. "She used to go to church all the time. ... She'd debate people in class and even had a religious tattoo on her [right wrist]."

"She had a lot of friends; she was very popular," said Jessica Cimino, 15, another friend. Cimino and the other girls said they plan to attend the family funeral on Monday and wear T-shirts bearing Sylvia's image to school on Tuesday.

Ayman and Milad Garad and other family members were allowed into the crime scene for the first time on Saturday morning to gather the needed paperwork for the cemetery. They left the home with a briefcase and several other items, including a tank with several small turtles inside.

Staff Writer Kathleen Carroll contributed to this story. E-mail: troncone@northjersey.com

Quote of the Day from Religion of Peace Advocate:

"I don't think this is religious at all," said Osama Hassan, director of the Islamic Center of Jersey City. "Maybe a few young Christian kids might have the wrong idea, but I think their leaders will set them straight."

Indians are very cool people .I know quite a few . They usually are VERY educated , work hard as all hell , love and respect America and have not the greatest love for Islam at all. Edison NJ has a big Indian population as well. Very well mannered and well spoken people . I've studied sitar for a few years and got to know them quite well.

Anytimea user logs onto his/her account, a log is generated which includes the IP address of the client, (fixed or dynamic) and also a MAC address , both of which are unique. Classes or blocks of IP addresses are "owned" by your ISP. it is a simple matter to find out to what network an IP is orignating from.

Once the authorities have made that determination they than subpeona the ISP for the server logs, which are date-time stamped.

Dial-up connections include built-in caller id within the communication servers (modem pools) and make it relatively easy to trace back to the user, dynamic IP assignments for broadband connections take a little bit more work to trace, static IP connections are more easiliy traced back to the user.

Where are the photos of the victims posted? I still haven't been able to see their faces.

Hossam Armanious

Hossam Armanious, 47, and wife Amal Garas, 37, who along with their children were found dead, bound and gagged with throat wounds on January 14, 2005 at approximately 4:00 a.m. at 85 Oakland Avenue in Jersey City. Anyone with information can contact the Hudson County Prosecutor's Office at (201) 915-1344. (Photo by - Handout)

Sylvia Armanious,16, who along with parents Hossam Armanious, 47, and wife Amal Garas, 37, and sister were found dead, bound and gagged with throat wounds on January 14, 2005.

Handout photo of Monica Armanious, 8, who along with parents Hossam Armanious, 47, and wife Amal Garas, 37, and sister were found dead in Jersey City.

There is a another lesson that needs to be digested here along with "who done it". Many Christians fled from these countries precisely because they were the targets of Islamic persecution. When we finally have enough of these Islamic fanatics in this country and start doing something about them, we want to make sure these Arab Christians aren't victimized by the reaction of those who are indescriminately after "all ragheads" and consider everyone from these countries as coming from the same root. There are many decent, Christian Arabs in America. These victims were four of them.

AMEN!

About 20 years ago the Black Muslim factions in DC had a tiff, and the result was a similar slaughter on upper 16th Street NW. Everyone in the house had their throats slit. Men, women, children, infants.

The house was owned by Kareem Abdul-Jabar, as I recall......

My friends, we are entering an era which has been in the making for centuries. Our churches have moved to the lands of immigration to escape the persecutions of the followers of the devil. We are each responsible for our own spritual well being , and we must hold on to God, and trust that He will save us in the last day. That He will bring us redemption, and we will defeat the evil doers(3adow le khair). When we see what's happening in the world today, and relate it to what was written in the Bible, we can very clearly see that(even though we don't know when) the time may be near. That means we must rely on the Mercy of Our Lord, and Hope in the Lord, and pray that he may have compassion on us and save us. It is far better to keep ourselves focused on spritual growth, then it is to divert our attention to the troubles of the world(which are many & inevitable) even if these troubles hit home. Remember: we are the the only problem that the devil really has(the Coptic Church in particular) and other christian churches which have endured persecutions since the beginning. I will try my best to write a more informative post in the near future, God willing.

The Peace of the Lord Be with you Amen.
Toronto, Canada.

In Pakistan, extremist Sunis with ties to Al Qaeda are often killing Shhia or Izmaili Muslims. They want to start a sectarian civil war to destabilize the government.

Whenever someone is murdered, the other side goes on the rampage and kills some usually innocent person from the other religion.

If this was a religious killing, the smart thing is to let the police handle it and not "take the law into our own hands (become terrorists) like the criminals. We have good police and courts. They will handle it.

Al Qaeda would like to see riots which kill Muslims in America. This would give them good propaganda. Keep your powder dry. American Muslims are mostly middle-class people who have fled the craziness at home. They don't like terrorism. Al Qaeda would like to radicalize these people by making them the targets of violence.

Let the law do its job. Mob violence is terrorism.

Here is a description of the funeral.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/18/nyregion/18jersey.html

Some Muslim leaders came and were welcomed by the Coptic priest, but some of the Christians were very angry and a fight started.

Please note that the Coptic priest kissed the Muslim Imam; they seem to be friends.

I know that CAIR has issues; at the same time, some people in these organizations are sincere and not trying to manipulate the organization for terrorism.

At Free Republic, people often ask, "Why don't the Muslims denounce terrorism?" The Muslims who came to this funeral did, but some Christians didn't accept it.

In a telephone interview yesterday afternoon, Sheik Saleh said he never intended to cause trouble and regretted attending the funeral. "I didn't come to hurt anyone, I came to support them," said Sheikh Saleh, 42, the imam of the Oulel Albab Mosque on Bay Ridge Avenue, sounding shaken. "I am sorry."
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/18/nyregion/18jersey.html

This Muslim tried to show his respects and show that Islam is against terrorism; instead he got terrorised. I am sure Al Qaeda will be happy that this happened. They will use it to show there is persecution of Islam by Christians in America. Many Muslims are persecuted by the "Muslim" fanatics. Not all Muslims support terrorism.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/18/nyregion/18jersey.html

"Those are killers!" yelled one man as Sheik Tarek Yousof Saleh, a Muslim cleric from Bay Ridge, Brooklyn, left the funeral site, escorted by police officers. "We don't want them in the church!"

In a telephone interview yesterday afternoon, Sheik Saleh said he never intended to cause trouble and regretted attending the funeral. "I didn't come to hurt anyone, I came to support them," said Sheikh Saleh, 42, the imam of the Oulel Albab Mosque on Bay Ridge Avenue, sounding shaken. "I am sorry."

I agree with you that the Muslims who came did not mean to be disrespectful. I wish that it would be found out that the crime had nothing to do with religion or politics, although I am afraid it does.

To some extent, perhaps it is good that the Muslim community - which apparently has put pressure on the Coptic community in that area for some time - is made aware that Copts are not going to accept this harrassment passively anymore. The only thing the majority of Muslims seem to respect is superior force. That said, I still feel that the Muslims who turned up at the funeral were doing so with a conciliatory spirit, and the gesture should have been accepted.

Thanks! The Egyptian Muslims and Christians had been getting along in this community until this happened. After all, they are all Egyptians. They probably go to the same restaurants and share many customs.

It is a big mistake to let the terrorists cause sectarian strife. That is exactly what they do in Pakistan.

Here, of course, there is more confidence in the integrity and competence of the police. You know they are going to move heaven and earth to get these people. And it may be a Muslim who hears what happened and rats them out, but don't expect to hear that in the papers.

Please remember, the main target of Al Qaeda is Muslims.
If innocent Muslims are attacked by "Christians," these
"Christians" are really acting as agents of Al Qaeda.

Don't do their dirty work! Let the law catch the criminals.

These clergymen were peacemakers, but the crowd was too angry.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/18/nyregion/18jersey.html

The uproar outside the community center of St. George and St. Shenouda Coptic Orthodox Church, on Bergen Avenue, began when some of the hundreds of mourners present saw a Coptic bishop hug the sheik before the sheik left in a police car, several members of the church said. According to the Rev. Antonious Tanious and several other Coptic Christians, two men began screaming at Bishop David, who presides over the Coptic churches in the Northeast, asking him how he could let a Muslim attend the service.

Panicked police officers whisked the two men and some others into a nearby garage and closed the metal door just as a swell of people, some screaming and waving wooden crosses, pressed up against the door.

Actually, I believe there have been tensions between the Muslim and Coptic communities in New Jersey, which carry over from the Muslim persecution of Copts in Egypt. The Copts in New Jersey do have every reason to be upset about this and it's pretty reasonable to suspect that Muslims may have committed the crime. (Still, there exists an outside possibility that it was not related to religion at all.)

However, I agree that the police should be allowed to investigate the crime and that vigilante justice is not the way to go. In any case, the Muslims who showed up at the funeral were probably not the bad guys.

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