Posted on 01/04/2005 12:24:26 PM PST by Keyes2000mt
The words were said countless thousands of times last year as a minister concluded the ceremony. "What God hath joined together, let no man put asunder." But so often man and woman do.
While gay marriage has been roundly condemned in most churches (and rightly so), you will not hear much about divorce. In many cases, if divorce is discussed in church, it's talked about as this horrible circumstance that comes upon people, listed in the same breath as automobile accidents or serious illnesses.
The Bible is quite clear on the issue of divorce. Malachi 2:16 says it clearly, "For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that He hateth putting away (i.e. Divorce)..." Hate's a strong word and Christ reiterates this in the New Testament. Yet, in the church, even in Conservative churches, a man is more likely to feel uncomfortable with pierced ear than with a couple divorces behind him.
There's good reason why the church and conservatives are skittish about this topic. There's no one who doesn't know someone who's been divorced. They fill our church pews every Sunday. We know them to be decent folks who agree with us on a lot of cultural issues. Randall Terry, Newt Gingrich, and Rush Limbaugh have all been divorced.
We also know folks who have been victimized by their ex-spouse: abused, cheated on, and treated like dirt. Or, perhaps you dear reader have had a divorce where you weren't at fault and that you didn't choose.
On the other hand, most Christians know very few homosexuals and even less know homosexuals who'd like to get married. The odds of a pastor offending a large tither whose gay and wants to get married is quite small.
To say our current divorce rate is a national sin is not to say that all divorcees are to be condemned and treated as despicable outcasts. The church should be compassionate, but even as Christ said, "Go and sin no more," It must be proactive in dealing with divorce.
Divorce must be taught against strongly in the church. The church as a community should be dedicated to helping preserve the marriages of the church. Strengthening the marriages of believers should be considered as important if not more so than evangelism. Children of broken homes often wander spiritually and in many cases fall from faith. Thus, a large church may win 100 converts, but if it produces 40 broken homes in the same year that leads to 100 angry and embittered children, it is not truly building the Kingdom of God.
Also, church discipline should be used when appropriate for those who divorce without just cause and refuse reconciliation efforts. Watching Cornerstone Television, I saw former NFL player and Pastor of Antioch Bible Church Ken Hutcherson. He organized the Mayday for Marriage rally in Washington, DC opposing gay marriage. Call him anything you like, but don't call him a gay-hating hypocrite. Hutcherson said that in the past year, he'd censured five members of the church, including some for ending marriages without just cause.
The structure of most Protestant Churches is anti-authoritarian and the idea of church discipline is scary to most of us as we've heard horror stories about how cults have abused it. However, desperate times call for desperate measures and a biblical use of church discipline could aid in preserving marriages.
Secular Action
The devastating number of divorces is an area where the interests of church and state collide. Studies have shown that divorces lead to economic problems for states and communities, as well as the long term problems that come from children of broken marriages. It's no accident that the richest states are those with the lowest divorce rates.
The fact is that anyone who finds themselves in a bad marriage made a mistake at one time or another. Half the time, their biggest mistake was getting married in the first place. To prevent these bad matches or to help get the marriage off on a better start, marrying couples should be required to undergo several hours of marriage classes and/or marital counseling from a licensed minister or marriage counselor.
Secondly, no-fault divorce laws must be reformed. Marriage is the most important relationship a person has legally, yet it has all the force and effect of a month-to-month lease thanks to no-fault divorce laws. The laws should be reformed so a no-fault divorce can only be obtained if both parties consent. This would also reduce the court costs associated with issues of custody and division of the property as a no-fault divorce could only be obtained if both parties were agreed on it.
Those who believe in gay marriage have pointed to divorce as an argument against those who seek to protect marriage from same sex unions. I reject the argument that one evil prospering requires that we allow another blow to traditional family values. However, preserving the family is about more than one single issue and if we're going to be serious about it, we have to address all the issues that threaten the survival of the Family.
I agree, it may not make people stay together. But at least it will remove the guilt from our government, which frankly encourages easy divorce through its laws. Divorce reform would be a much better expression of truthful values.
I strongly agree that the root causes lie elsewhere. But right now the government is on the wrong side, so if that can be corrected then it should be.
--there must be a phobia term for this -is there actual research backing this? It sounds eerily like the 'homophobia' propoganda homosexual activists use to push homosexuality?
This is not true in and of itself. Christians are only licensed to divorce in instances of adultery, abandonment, or (in my opinion, the Bible does not specifically address it) physical abuse. In that case immediate separation is needed, and obviously the Lord does not expect a spouse to remain with someone who abuses them.
1 Cornithians 7:12 - 14 for more reference.
And of course over all of this we remember the forgiveness of Christ which works in all circumstances.
If you choose to frame the argument from a liberal democrat standpoint maybe. I would suggest nothing prevents homosexuals from doing whatever they want in thier bedrooms -nor are they prevented from making any legal agreements with each other on thier dime.
What kind of reform do you have in mind?
I am under the impression that before no fault divorce, spouses that wanted to leave a marriage against the wishes of their partner would make things up about them, such as saying they were unfaithful when they weren't. No fault divorce was seen as a way to cut down on false accusations.
But at least it will remove the guilt from our government, which frankly encourages easy divorce through its laws.
I agree it encourages divorce through financial judgements that usually favor the wife... "I'm bored, maybe I'll take his house, car, and bank account and have a new boyfriend move in...". The solution to that is ending financial judgements. Someone wants to leave, they can but they only get what they paid for.
But the proposed 'solution' is government forcing someone to stay married against their will. I have a huge problem with that sort of intrusiveness.
"If you choose to frame the argument from a liberal democrat standpoint maybe. I would suggest nothing prevents homosexuals from doing whatever they want in thier bedrooms -nor are they prevented from making any legal agreements with each other on thier dime."
Then I think we're cool :)
It's easy enough to get worked up around here so it's nice to meet someone who pulls back from the brink of a flame war and compels me to type decently and not like a 1000lb hopped up 'liberty or death' terror freak. If y'know what I mean...
P.S. "Christian Taliban"????
That is just horrible. You should know that such a thing is absolutely not defensible Biblically. In fact, in 1 Corinthians 7:12 - 14, spouses who are abandoned are not held accountable for divorces.
I am bowing out of this thread...it's gotten too nasty for me.
Attacks and counterattacks are flying around, but not much is being discussed on the topic, per se. I don't want anyone to take me the wrong way here, because I agree with you ladies on the topic itself. What I am having trouble with is how angry everyone is. Everyone feels personally insulted, and that's not helping anything at all.
I came onto the thread to get a question of mine answered, and I should have bowed out when I got it, but I have trouble watching people be insulted. Unfortunately, now I am seeing EVERYONE getting nailed, even folks who are honestly trying to be nice.
This whole episode has been upsetting to me personally, so I think it's best that I just bow out. I just hope folks realize that everyone has a valid point to make...please, try to give each other the respect of making it politely.
As I have said before, I am far from perfect myself, but I just can't stand this anymore. Have a good day everyone, and see y'all on another thread.
Take care FRiend...........I, too am bowing out of this thread for similar reasons.
You, too. :)
Thanks for sharing. My youngest daughter is being targeted through parental notification, regarding schoolwork. Until I couldn't stand it anymore, I dutifully reported their grades(made photocopies of their report cards, etc), but I eventually had to block "sender" to stop the harassment. You'd be surprised at the lengths that an alienator will go to. My youngest was a good student, unfortunately that changed after my ex married his best candidate (if she only knew). She is an elementary school teacher, and is the one who is calling CPS on us all the time.
My youngest is on home studies through the local school district. Because of this probate mess, we don't have a permanent address...not to mention she still has steel rods in her legs from a car accident in August. He's fixing to use that against us, too.
I have a moral imperative to make sure that my child is educated in an appropriate enviroment. Today's schools don't cut the mustard. My little one has endured a lot of pain from her father's actions. His actions made her a target. She ended her days at Torrance Elementary, vomiting and suffering from chronic insomnia...thanks to his letters to the schools, and the first visit from CPS. The whole family is working with her, and hopefully we can combat his and his wife's influence.
Why am I saying this? I believe that you are an alienator. You did this to your kid, so you could sit back and crow when her grades naturally adjusted. God always decides in the end....
>>Why am I saying this? I believe that you are an alienator. You did this to your kid, so you could sit back and crow when her grades naturally adjusted. God always decides in the end....<<
YOu have not really gotten enough info to even have a valid opinion on my particular situation.
As I have aged, I have learned that people and their situations are rarely one dimensional as you are so quick to make me and mine. I have not shared here what was going on BEFORE I got custody, nor have I shared what has transpired on my ex's side SINCE I got custody.
You don't know what you are taling about, but thanks for sharing anyway.
Gnostic heretical teaching...and medieval legend. No surprise you incorporate it into your belief system. That name is not in the Old or New Testament. Like I said....your 'truth' blows in the wind and your belief system is not Christian...whatever you think it is. I don't laugh at you, you have my sympathy.
But, a 'lady' as advanced in years as you seem to be will find the error of your ways shortly.
Just out of curiousity, does your husband spend a lot of time out in the garage or doing hobby things to avoid your domineering attitude?LOL!
Making something harder (marriage), which is already being abandoned in increasing droves . . .
is not likely to solve a whole lot.
Making something harder (marriage), which is already being abandoned in increasing droves . . .
is not likely to solve a whole lot.
Nothing meaningful to contribute you have, 'eh?
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