Or maybe an Old Devil ale from Wychwood Brewery.....
Have you ever tried a Polygamy Porter from Wasatch Brewery?
Posted on 01/04/2005 12:24:26 PM PST by Keyes2000mt
The words were said countless thousands of times last year as a minister concluded the ceremony. "What God hath joined together, let no man put asunder." But so often man and woman do.
While gay marriage has been roundly condemned in most churches (and rightly so), you will not hear much about divorce. In many cases, if divorce is discussed in church, it's talked about as this horrible circumstance that comes upon people, listed in the same breath as automobile accidents or serious illnesses.
The Bible is quite clear on the issue of divorce. Malachi 2:16 says it clearly, "For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that He hateth putting away (i.e. Divorce)..." Hate's a strong word and Christ reiterates this in the New Testament. Yet, in the church, even in Conservative churches, a man is more likely to feel uncomfortable with pierced ear than with a couple divorces behind him.
There's good reason why the church and conservatives are skittish about this topic. There's no one who doesn't know someone who's been divorced. They fill our church pews every Sunday. We know them to be decent folks who agree with us on a lot of cultural issues. Randall Terry, Newt Gingrich, and Rush Limbaugh have all been divorced.
We also know folks who have been victimized by their ex-spouse: abused, cheated on, and treated like dirt. Or, perhaps you dear reader have had a divorce where you weren't at fault and that you didn't choose.
On the other hand, most Christians know very few homosexuals and even less know homosexuals who'd like to get married. The odds of a pastor offending a large tither whose gay and wants to get married is quite small.
To say our current divorce rate is a national sin is not to say that all divorcees are to be condemned and treated as despicable outcasts. The church should be compassionate, but even as Christ said, "Go and sin no more," It must be proactive in dealing with divorce.
Divorce must be taught against strongly in the church. The church as a community should be dedicated to helping preserve the marriages of the church. Strengthening the marriages of believers should be considered as important if not more so than evangelism. Children of broken homes often wander spiritually and in many cases fall from faith. Thus, a large church may win 100 converts, but if it produces 40 broken homes in the same year that leads to 100 angry and embittered children, it is not truly building the Kingdom of God.
Also, church discipline should be used when appropriate for those who divorce without just cause and refuse reconciliation efforts. Watching Cornerstone Television, I saw former NFL player and Pastor of Antioch Bible Church Ken Hutcherson. He organized the Mayday for Marriage rally in Washington, DC opposing gay marriage. Call him anything you like, but don't call him a gay-hating hypocrite. Hutcherson said that in the past year, he'd censured five members of the church, including some for ending marriages without just cause.
The structure of most Protestant Churches is anti-authoritarian and the idea of church discipline is scary to most of us as we've heard horror stories about how cults have abused it. However, desperate times call for desperate measures and a biblical use of church discipline could aid in preserving marriages.
Secular Action
The devastating number of divorces is an area where the interests of church and state collide. Studies have shown that divorces lead to economic problems for states and communities, as well as the long term problems that come from children of broken marriages. It's no accident that the richest states are those with the lowest divorce rates.
The fact is that anyone who finds themselves in a bad marriage made a mistake at one time or another. Half the time, their biggest mistake was getting married in the first place. To prevent these bad matches or to help get the marriage off on a better start, marrying couples should be required to undergo several hours of marriage classes and/or marital counseling from a licensed minister or marriage counselor.
Secondly, no-fault divorce laws must be reformed. Marriage is the most important relationship a person has legally, yet it has all the force and effect of a month-to-month lease thanks to no-fault divorce laws. The laws should be reformed so a no-fault divorce can only be obtained if both parties consent. This would also reduce the court costs associated with issues of custody and division of the property as a no-fault divorce could only be obtained if both parties were agreed on it.
Those who believe in gay marriage have pointed to divorce as an argument against those who seek to protect marriage from same sex unions. I reject the argument that one evil prospering requires that we allow another blow to traditional family values. However, preserving the family is about more than one single issue and if we're going to be serious about it, we have to address all the issues that threaten the survival of the Family.
The proof isn't until children are adults...so you have a while to see if all your hard work paid off. :-)
Sure they were - you just didn't realize it because you were a kid. You also weren't privy to their behind closed doors emotional state.
My best friend is totally miserable in his marriage to the extent that he went on antidepressants, but in public or in front of family members he seems as happy as can be.
re 467...hardly...just no sense poundin' your head against a dense and rebellious group of girly know-it-alls trees. Sorry....
Besides...I'm not at a keyboard in front of a nice desk like you girls....I'm banging away on a pocket PC.....but I'm sure you know what that is since you're so wise and all.
Indeed.
That is very true.........and I do have a good many years to find out!!!!!
I'm a heck of a lot more concerned about her love of learning and doing well in school and being respectful than I am in her putting away her toys.
If I have to spend an extra 20 minutes in the morning picking up some of her stuff because she chose to explain to me the difference between 1/3 and 1/4 of a cup of milk to make muffins for dinner, so be it!
Sorry, but I have a low battery. Gotta slither out of this den of vipers. Would love to stay and watch you try to twist scripture, but I deduce and true scripture teaching would bounce right off nopardons et.al.
Have fun gossipin' girls!
Another santimonious twit slithers off into the night, thankfully.
I can assure you that I feel absolutely no guilt whatsoever over leaving my first wife, who I refer to often by her alias, Satan.
In a word, no. Love is indeed an emotion. You'll find little debate over this.
Or maybe an Old Devil ale from Wychwood Brewery.....
Have you ever tried a Polygamy Porter from Wasatch Brewery?
I don't think that's it. I knew my first wife for a couple of years before before we married. Nothing in those two years prepared me for the monster she would become.
On the other hand, I married my wife 8 months after we met, and we'll have been married 14 years this June.
Listen little boy,in an adult's body...you aren't nearly as clever,or as smart,nor as "holy" as you imagine yourself to be.And calling me "Jezebel" is so funny;you have NO idea just HOW funny! *snicker*
Okay,so Jews haven't been around from time immoral? C lose to 6,000 is a pretty long time,tinpot.
And there is no condemnation,in either the OT or the NT,of concubinage,multiple marriages (the Kings in the OT weren't punished for multiple marriages;but for other things!),nor for some pretty strange,yet accepted practices. Onan refused to impregnate his brother's widow.Marriage isn't mentioned,just the law that a widow MUST be given a child by her late husband's brother.And then there's the surrogate mother thing,which produced Ishmael and wasn't considxered to be adultery.
And since there was no such thing as Christianity,when Jesus walked the face of the earth,talking about "the bride of Christ" and marriage being akin to C hrist's love of "the church",are later additions. Lest we all forget,the Bible has been translated and written down so many times,that it's a wonder that so much of it stayed the same for centuries.So,if you think that throwing all kinds of cherry-picked bits and pieces of scripture up,is some kind of great refutation,you've quite another think coming!
What about the early Catholic church's dictum,that wife beating is not only okay,but something that should be done? Did Jesus tell HIS disciples that they had to eat fish on Fridays? No,he didn't.
And IF ,as you claim,marriage is a religious covenant,then are ALL marriages,other than Christian ones, not marriages at all?
In the Middle Ages,only royalty and the aristocracy were married by priests.The common folk would say that they were each other's own,on church steps.Some didn't even bother with that.And most royal and upper upper class marriages were arranged and POLITICAL/PROPERTY matches!
And as far as "common Christian teachings" are concerned,there are many and varied ones.
"Rebellious spirit" ? Your condescension and hubris are pathetic,silly,and will,in the end,be your undoing.
You appear to think that women are mindless,uneducated,immature,and something quite low,to be ruled over,made fun of,and subjugated to men.Yoooooooooo hooooooooooooooooooo,I hear that the Taliban think the same way,as do many other Muslims.
You don't know history well at all,you don't know much about the Bible and Christianity,other than what's been spoon fed you,and a CONSERVATIVE POLITICAL FORUM,has many people in it,who,though they may or may not think the way you do,shouldn't be preached at,nor talked down to,by some HOLIER THAN THOU child,who imagines himself to be GOD's mouthpiece. :^)
Yes LILITH! Her story has been left out of all Christian Bibles,but she was Adam's FIRST wife in the original OT and survives in today's Jewish teachings outside of the Bible. Even the Catholic church used her,as the premise for the succubus. It was their excuse to condemn nocturnal emissions. You know what those are,don't you?
Learn some history,ditch the smarmy sanctimony and misogynistic garbage,and maybe then we can discuss this as adults.
Oh,and when did you stop beating your wife,or have you? :-)
If you can live under the same roof and keep your hands off of her, she's not the one.
You summed up my attitude quite nicely, thank you.
I've dealt with these types before on issues having NOTHING to do with religion and have been accused of being a bible thumping holier-than-thou type (not on FR) in the same sentence that I am being called a hypocrite.
The way I look at it(right or wrong), is that those who need to brag about their 'religiousity or Christianity' and berate others for a perceived lack of, have serious doubts regarding their own faith. I don't particularly care what others think of my "Christianity" or lack, that is between God and me, just as theirs is.
I do wish (and pray) a few of them would remember the virtue of humility and confine their claims of being better than others to the thoughts left in their mind and not pushed through their keyboards. But, alas, those who need to remember that most are those that will fail to see themselves in our comments.
How old is your daughter? Has she reached the horrible years yet? From about 11 -14,daughters should be locked in a closet or sent off somewhere. LOL After that,they slowly come out of that stage and become wonderful. :-)
I understand, I've been there........my thoughts and prayers are with you.
"Another santimonious twit slithers off into the night, thankfully."
He's probably just gagging on your endless self-congratulation.
You (actually) wrote, "I want them to consider that others (meaning yourself) are more tolerant, compassionate, and understanding about the "faults" of others."
What tripe. The issue here is a theologically grounded difference in beliefs, and being on your side of the issue is not one whit more "tolerant, compassionate, and understanding" than being on the other side, particularly in light of the fact that you spent most of the disussion displaying extreme intolerance of those whose beliefs differ from yours.
The other half you spent whining about people attacking you, when all they were doing was expressing their opinions in a civil manner. Nobody has attacked you till this note, and I'm not attacking you for your beliefs regarding divorce, wrongheaded as they are, but for your incredible self-righteousness.
It's no wonder nobody wants to discuss the issue with you. Might as well be over at DU.
It's just you. I don't discount your evaluation of women, I think it's spot on target. I do however think you're giving men more credit than they deserve. I've seen several of my male family members, friends, and acquaintences (all in their 40's) run off with younger, prettier women. This behavior is by no means limited to women.
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