Posted on 12/30/2004 2:08:16 PM PST by Marine Inspector
Carloads of Muslim New Yorkers, all U.S. citizens, were detained for hours by federal agents after they returned from an Islamic convention held in Toronto over the weekend. A Pace University student said she was asked by a border patrol officer at the Lewiston-Queenston Bridge crossing whether the wire in her bra was a weapon. A white Flushing resident said U.S. officials refused to tell her why she was being held for eight hours.
"It's just appalling," said Jean Tassi, 53. "If I didn't have on a head covering, I would have never been stopped."
A U.S. Customs and Border Protection official said agents acted on intelligence that conventioneers may have terrorists in their cars.
"We understand that most of these conferences are legitimate, but it is our duty, it is incumbent on us to verify the identity of everybody entering the U.S. - even citizens," said Kristi Clemens, a Washington spokeswoman. "I understand their frustration."
More than 30 people had attended "Reviving the Islamic Spirit" convention at the Skydome that was billed as a spiritually uplifting event.
"I refuse to be treated like this in my own country," said Miriam Soliman, 20, a Brooklyn-born finance major who said she was interrogated about her underwire bra.
Besides, that West vs. Islam war you keep banging the drums for? That's exactly what Osama wants. Keep on supporting him...
My comments are dealing with my fellow "citizens" who may be Muslims, and the silence of these groups is deafening.
There are MANY Brave and hopeful Iraqis dying every day for a chance at DEMOCRACY, I understand this and admire it.
But where is the SUPPORT in the Islamic world for these people; the same Islamic world that finds the "mistreatment" of murderers and rapists (the "stacked" nude men had raped an 18 year old male at the prison)at Abu Ghraib appalling, stays silent when Iraqi Police and National Guard are assassinated and executed; and REMARKABLY silent after 9/11/01, in fact they were dancing in the streets of Jersey City.
BTW, some of those who did speak out qualified their comments by condemning American foreign policy as being part of the cause, especially our support of Israel.
The Al Queda (sp) terrorists are the ENEMY of all, they are the infidels and heathens, and they need to be ostracized not embraced, and destroyed, not admired, by one and all.
As for the quote it's from the Old Testament, and that's part of the quandry about Jews, Christians and Muslims: we ALL believe in Father Abraham, but rather than celebrate our similarities and respect our differences, we have spent 2000 years (give or take) killing in the name of the same God, basically.
To know how I really feel, see my tagline.
Rod Serling, where are you when we need you ? do-do do-do ....
You said: Oh, right, this from the article that was the only one to report on the bra incident - So lets see, you believe your interpretation of that, you don't believe the bra or the report that the white woman was held for 8 hours without being told why, but you believe the spokeswoman when she says they needed to verify the ID via prints.
And you choose Not to believe the CBP report of possible terrorists.
BTW, I never said I didn't believe the "bra story", I felt that perhaps some of the "aggrieved" were overreacting, and needed to just sit down, shut up and deal with it. If the woman was actually held 8 hours, oh well, a lack of cooperation sometimes lengthens processe which should run smoothly (ask TSA at the airport if things would be faster if people cooperated more), and a good attitude will get you through a lot faster than a bad one.
Once again, it is obvious what was meant about beliefs, it's spelled out bu yhe statement: this group has the same basic beliefs of our enemies, whether or not they espouse the same terroristic beliefs. And it means exactly what it says nothing more, nothing less.
I am not even going to entertain your other contrarian comments, except to say that please use my entire quotes. I said "The CBP were erring on the side of caution." and that's how it should be.
The agents of our government are not the enemy, they are here to protect us from the enemy, and right now that enemy is UBL and ALL of his like-minded followers and enablers.
I'm afraid you will never get it.
Good. Hold them there forever.
"A Pace University student said she was asked by a border patrol officer at the Lewiston-Queenston Bridge crossing whether the wire in her bra was a weapon."
I think genuine Americans are regularly subjected to this indignity now at airports - thanks to Muslim Terrorists.
Sorry, No sympathy. As a matter of fact, it would have been nice had they not been allowed back in.
"And you choose Not to believe the CBP report of possible terrorists"
Perhaps I just don't believe the DN report of a CBP report of possible terrorists, since no other report reported it.
"this group has the same basic beliefs of our enemies, whether or not they espouse the same terroristic beliefs."
Without qualifying it more, your statment could egually apply to a group of Christians and Jews.
Whatever side they were erring on , they WERE erring -
Which our CBP should NOT be doing at all.
But either these agents did not realize they were erring, or worse did not care, and went out of their way to "err", and the CBP seems to be in CYA mode.
... which was the whole damn point of this thread.
And ???????????
That's what happens here, at least with the old system. If you have extraneous passengers in your car, you are pulled over for further examination, though. This is my guess as to what was going on with the car loads of Muslims. The drivers would know what would happen and were probably looking to cause a fuss, with their lawyers already to file complaints.
"The drivers would know what would happen and were probably looking to cause a fuss, with their lawyers already to file complaints."
Hard to create a fuss with lawyers if they had already submited their prints and pics to obtain these voluntary passes and knew and agreed to the rules regarding carrying extra passengers.
In any case there is nothing to suggest that they had these passes and used these special lanes, nor that they created any kind of fuss.
( I don't equate asking "why am I being stopped ? " with "creating a fuss" )
Perhaps I just don't believe the DN report of a CBP report of possible terrorists, since no other report reported it.
From the AP story:A spokeswoman for Homeland Security's Customs and Border Protection said agents stopped anyone who said they attended the three-day convention, titled "Reviving the Islamic Spirit," based on information that such gatherings can be a means for terrorists to promote their cause.
A reasonable suspicion in this day and age, and no one, except you possibly, is perfect.
The CBP men and women have a very tough job and need to make decisions on a case by case basis. They are given guidelines to help, and a situation like this. That is all that one can do when faced with a dilemma that MAY cause serious repercussions down the line. People visit the Statue of Liberty everyday and are made to wait on lines to pass throught extremely tight, Airport-like screening to board a ferry, they then have to go through the same thing at the Statue if they wish to go inside. Why? Because that's the nature of the world today and we, the American people, are faced with an insidious and cowardly enemy who has no regard for life, not even his own.
How exactly should we deal with an enemy who hides in civilian clothes and will destroy anything and everything that does not meet the Islamofascist standards? You have offered no solutions yourself, but have created much divisivness and speak of American citizens doing their jobs to the best of their ability and trying to protect America from another attack, as if they were the enemy.
Anyone traveling through an airport is subjected to similar invasive procedures, and have to arrive 2 to 3 hours early for their flights, that's just the way it is right now.
Man survives by adapting and we have adapted as best we can for now.
What do you suggest, take people's word for it that they ARE citizens and are not here to do any harm?
We already have several known cases and convictions concerning American citizens, native and naturalized, that have advocated the destruction of our country and have acted upon it as well.
A fingerprint may not prove citizenship in all cases, but it may prove a criminal history and possibly a terrorist one, depending on available records.
Until a BETTER system is developed we have to live with it, unless you can offer a solution to resolve the problem of dealing with the enemy at border crossings and elsewhere.
"based on information that such gatherings can be a means for terrorists to promote their cause."
Is being in a place where a terrorist COULD be promoting their cause defined as a terrorist activity ?
"The CBP men and women have a very tough job and need to make decisions on a case by case basis."
True, but this was not case-by-case, by all reports this was a blanket decision.
Doing their job "to the best of their ability" is NOT doing whatever they feel like to do whatever it is they think their job is.
The solutions, rules and regulations that Bush has put into place appear to be working.
If the CBP agents "err" and go beyond them, it is simply an error - but you correct errors, you don't sanction the use of them.
Wrong. It's quite interesting, though, that you felt like you were being accused of it. Says more about you than about me.
The references were made to show that the world has changed a lot in 200 years, that attitudes have changed and that the great men that wrote the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were slightly flawed by today's standards but that this in no way diminishes their greatness, nor the greatness of the document.
Right, I understood that the first three times you said that. What you've still failed to explain is how that bolsters your bizarre conclusion that the Founders would have approved of what government is doing today. Can you, or you just trying to, uh, dazzle us with brilliance?
You have chosen the path of an annoying flea, a nit, an annoyance more than anything else.
Sorry you feel that way, but I think you would have found this whole affair a lot less annoying if you were to either back up your statement, or admit you were in error. Refusal to do one or the other is certainly bound to make you annoyed at those who ask it of you, but it won't be their fault that you have that reaction.
But you are not among us.
When there shall be found among you within any of thy gates, which the Lord thy God shall give thee, man or woman that do evil in the sight of the Lord thy God, and transgress his covenant,
So as to go and serve strange gods, and adore them, the sun and the moon, and all the host of heaven, which I have not commanded:
And this is told thee, and hearing it thou hast inquired diligently, and found it to be true, and that the abomination is committed in Israel:
Thou shalt bring forth the man or the woman, who have committed that most wicked thing, to the gates of thy city, and they shall be stoned.
Deuteronomy 17:2-5
Stoning those who leave the faith is called for. Hmm... Where have I heard complaints about that?
I assume you think Louis Farrakhan is American and conservative ...
No
He is not one of us.
Let's see... wait a while and those Hollyweirdos will be right up by the SF'ers, based on the relative tectonic plate movements. Of course, by then, they will be blaming everything on the SUFC (Sport Utility Flying Cars), right?
"Wrong."
The Quran commands them to kill the non-Muslims, and that is exactly what they are doing.
The entire religion of Islam is based on the hatred of people who are different. That is what their entire religion is about. The clerics in mosques in the Islamic world keep people coming to their sermons by spewing hatred and vitriol against all non-Muslims.
Most Muslims believe that the lives of "infidels" are worth nothing, and that we must be exterminated.
Islam is a religion of Evil. The whole faith centers around violence, intolerance, abuse of women, and death.
This is a religion that encourages genocide, murder, rape, domestic abuse, and just about every other crime.
Muhammad himself, the drunken satanist camel driving pedophile who founded that freak show called "Islam" raped nine year old girls, and encouraged his followers to rape and murder infidels.
And this scumbag (Muhammed) is their prophet.
"There is no difference between abortion clinic bombers and the terrorist hijackers of September 11th. There is no difference between James Kopp, Shelley Shannon, and Michael Griffin, and John Allen Muhammad and Lee Malvo"
Except that the abortion clinic bombers only wanted to kill the doctors they perceive as murderers while Malvo and Muhammed were murdering RANDOM people indiscriminately.
That is a HUGE difference. I am amazed that you cannot see it.
"BTW, how do you explain this?
Five of you will chase a hundred, and a hundred of you will chase ten thousand, and your enemies will fall by the sword before you.
Leviticus 26:8
Sounds just like the Koranic verses the Islamophobes like to post to "prove" that Islam is an evil juggernaut out to destroy everyone else..."
Umm...no?
That verse sounds like it is saying that the people doing the chasing are after their enemies, who have probably attacked them. It does NOT tell the reader to kill all non-Jews or Non-Christians. The enemies this passage has talked about are probably enemies in a war. On the other hand, the Quran exhorts the Muslims to kill infidels indiscriminately and ambush them.
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