Posted on 12/30/2004 2:08:16 PM PST by Marine Inspector
Carloads of Muslim New Yorkers, all U.S. citizens, were detained for hours by federal agents after they returned from an Islamic convention held in Toronto over the weekend. A Pace University student said she was asked by a border patrol officer at the Lewiston-Queenston Bridge crossing whether the wire in her bra was a weapon. A white Flushing resident said U.S. officials refused to tell her why she was being held for eight hours.
"It's just appalling," said Jean Tassi, 53. "If I didn't have on a head covering, I would have never been stopped."
A U.S. Customs and Border Protection official said agents acted on intelligence that conventioneers may have terrorists in their cars.
"We understand that most of these conferences are legitimate, but it is our duty, it is incumbent on us to verify the identity of everybody entering the U.S. - even citizens," said Kristi Clemens, a Washington spokeswoman. "I understand their frustration."
More than 30 people had attended "Reviving the Islamic Spirit" convention at the Skydome that was billed as a spiritually uplifting event.
"I refuse to be treated like this in my own country," said Miriam Soliman, 20, a Brooklyn-born finance major who said she was interrogated about her underwire bra.
Picture, please. <EG>
Seriously, I agree with you...that's how I read the Bible, Old AND New Testaments..except that I don't think Jesus would have advocated invading their countries and killing their leaders--just the conversion part and perhaps a shaking the dust off the sandals at the leaders. ;-)
I "want" it to be a Peace Loving religion. That doesn't make it so.
Very true. No magic thinking here!
I don't understand why they want to be here if we are such pagans.
But who is "they"? Couldn't it be that the ones here are the ones who are not interested in just killing us all?
While I agree about the assimilation part, I see the same problem with Hispanic immigrant populations recently (not just Mexican-origin) and wonder where we went wrong last century such that we're no longer expecting this of immigrants. One thing to consider, though...there's Chinatown, and Italian neighborhoods...where is the difference? Just asking, to see what you and others think.
Could be, and that's another good reason for why the CBP should be able to provide the rationale for investigating after citizenship was established, if they have one, or admit what they did was a violation of regulations.
Most of the Muslims I know are African-Americans whose ancestors have been in America for centuries.
Apparently, not 'everyone has been assimilated into this culture in the past.'
I think He would like to see them all converted to Christianity
As a matter of fact, most black Muslims were Christians at one time. Why are these US-born Americans abandoning Christianity?
Citizenship does not automaticly let you cross the border without answsering questions and being searched. I know people who have had their whole car dismantled while they were being interrogated. Their crime was simply crossing the border too often.
Excellent question. And you're right on target. Our prisons are recruitment centers, where those who are angry and "anti-Mainstream America" find Islam an attractive alternative.
Fingerprinted?
They fingerprint everyone who applies for a cross border pass.
What border is that?
US/Canada in Washington state.
The issue of conversion is complex. The bottom line is that some Pakistani Muslims are better assimilated than US-born African Americans.
People's religions have little to do with assimilation. Back in high school, one of wresting team member was a Muslim. As a part of the team, I got to know him and his family very well. For me, he's a typical American, college-educated, decent, honest, woodworking, family-loving and conservative.
They have a program to facillitate regular border crossing. They fingerprint and do an FBI background check on you and any family members under eighteen. Once you are cleared, they give you a sticker for your car and you are allowed to cross the border at will, but you cannot take anyone with you that is not on your family list. If you are caught taking non-approved people across with you, you are in big trouble. This is probably what was going on with these Muslims.
Sorry...I meant to add to your comment, suggesting that the prisons and jails are effective recruiting grounds. I didn't mean to deny your well made point about well assimilated Muslims.
"And you think the Communist Party of the USSR didn't want to destroy us unless we converted,"
Yes they did.
"and they had nukes."
and...
"We've faced enemies before, and being strongly united against them is best, not attacking our own freedoms."
We are not attacking our OWN freedoms. We are preventing THEM from attacking OUR freedoms and imposing THEIR will, values, religion, and oppressive culture on US.
To do this, we must make sure that not to many Muslims get into our country, otherwise they will democratically take us over using the voting booth.
Islam is the antithesis of American values. Muslim values like the oppression of women, the mistreatment of non-believers, etc, are the OPPOSITE of American values. If we let too many people who beioeve in Islamic values into our country, we will lose our identity, and our freedom, when they force-convert us to Islam.
"and hey, what about this...Exodus 22:20--"He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed."
I dont know if that's a real Bible passage, I'm not going to look it up, but even if it is real, remember, NO Christians are trying to carry this out.
But the Muslims ARE carrying out the violent acts mentioned in the Koran.
Thats a huge differnce between us and them.
And I'm not going to argue Bible quotes with you. The Bible has parts that talk of war, and of God helping his people in war, but nowhere in the Bible does it tell Christians to kill all non-Christians.
In the Quran, it tells Muslims to kill all nonmuslims.
"Bottom line is that any text can be twisted, and dueling texts aren't the point."
You havent mentioned any of the other points I made in my posts.
I've been to Canada and back countless times and have never needed any "Cross Border Pass" or fingerprinting. I do carry my passport (in which I definitely look like a terrorist, according to most viewers...hehehe) and make sure I have my CF-4457's on me for any electronic devices I take in and don't want to get charged duty on, but never have I heard of them violating regulations and requiring fingerprints of me.
It's a pass that you can get so that you can go through in the fast lane, with only a brief stop at the crossing. It avoids the long lines.
Oh, really?
This story was about CBP officers violating regulations when dealing with NATIVE-BORN AMERICAN CITIZENS. If they didn't violate regulations, it means they had to meet a standard of evidence or reason to believe one of these citizens was trying to enter illegally. What was that reason--is it so wrong to ask, or so hard to answer? When a cop pulls over someone, they can't just do it without being able to give a SPECIFIC reason. That's what I'm asking for.
Otherwise, they have no right to require fingerprints from US Citizens, nor claim it was a random search.
To do this, we must make sure that not to many Muslims get into our country, otherwise they will democratically take us over using the voting booth.
Part of the beauty of having a Constitutional Republic is to limit the effect of those who would do this. So tell me why weakening our Constitution will HELP us!
And would you suggest manditory population control on those who are already here? How about preventing conversion of beliefs--as I mentioned, there are more converts to Islam in America each day.
And I'm not going to argue Bible quotes with you.
I have no intention of doing so, since the Bible I have teaches that we are to trust in God, that the real God will win over the false god of Islam, and that we are not supposed to give in to fear.
In fact, I don't see anywhere that Jesus teaches anything but coexistence with non-believers. And if you go to the Old Testament, it teaches you should kill the non-believers in your cities. hmmm...
You havent mentioned any of the other points I made in my posts.
I thought I addressed all your points in my reply, in toto, if not line by line.
Not all Muslims are our enemy. The peace loving ones who do not want to impose their values and culture on us can be our allies.
I agree.
But the religion of Islam IS our enemy.
Some would say you can't separate the two. And how do you tell a "true Muslim" from one who isn't. I guess I'm asking for you to clarify exactly what you think the solution is.
But I guess you're saying if I were Muslim, I shouldn't have that choice? Is that it? Please explain why some citizens should be required to be fingerprinted and others not. And should I be forced to register if I convert to Islam?
Then it would be very simple to say that's why they were further investigated. Since the CBP officers did not give that as their justification for it, then I suspect it's not the case. Are you just speculating, or do you have info beyond what was reported?
Then just click here: Exodus 22:20 (Biblegateway.com)
No insult intended, I realize that you too are a member of the "Resistance", as are we trapped within the Northeast!
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