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Believe it or not, they're all the same species [Human Evolution]
telegraph.co.uk ^ | 26 December 2004 | Robert Matthews

Posted on 12/25/2004 4:48:07 PM PST by PatrickHenry

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The original article has a great graphic you can enlarge by clicking on it.

This is a Christmas crevo thread. No "humbug!" jokes. Everyone be nice.

1 posted on 12/25/2004 4:48:08 PM PST by PatrickHenry
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To: VadeRetro; Junior; longshadow; RadioAstronomer; Doctor Stochastic; js1138; Shryke; RightWhale; ...
EvolutionPing
Not a list for the creationism side of the debate. See the list's description in my freeper homepage. Then FReepmail to be added/dropped.

2 posted on 12/25/2004 4:49:36 PM PST by PatrickHenry (The List-O-Links for evolution threads is at my freeper homepage.)
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To: shuckmaster

Thanks for bringing this article to my attention.


3 posted on 12/25/2004 4:50:32 PM PST by PatrickHenry (The List-O-Links for evolution threads is at my freeper homepage.)
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To: PatrickHenry
This is a Christmas crevo thread. No "humbug!" jokes. Everyone be nice.

I thought "being nice" was guaranteed by point 5 on your "agreement of the willing" on your About Page. ;-)

As it is, I wonder what classifications about species we'd make about the many variants of good old Rover & his friends, if we didn't know about dog shows.

It might make for a good sci-fi short story of the type Isaac Asimov used to write...

4 posted on 12/25/2004 4:54:25 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: PatrickHenry

You never sleep..do you....Merry Christmas.


5 posted on 12/25/2004 4:56:37 PM PST by Focault's Pendulum
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To: Focault's Pendulum; All
I don't want this thread to get all mushy, but ...

Christmas greetings from PatrickHenry: Christmas 1776.

6 posted on 12/25/2004 4:59:39 PM PST by PatrickHenry (PatrickHenry's law of reality: If each event in a causal chain is natural, the totality is natural.)
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To: PatrickHenry

Do we really need another study in anthropology? Heck, there's still ape-like humanoid creatures and knuckle-grazing cave-dwellers wandering the streets today.


7 posted on 12/25/2004 5:00:10 PM PST by mtbopfuyn
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To: PatrickHenry
Plotted out as a graph, [fossil dimensions] form the classic bell-shaped curve found using data from modern humans.

I'm pretty sure that if you graphed, say, the body masses of a few thousand critters chosen at random you'd get a bell curve, too. Not too good an argument for their all being the same species.

8 posted on 12/25/2004 5:01:45 PM PST by Grut
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To: PatrickHenry
Opening excerpt from here

The proper study of mankind

Jun 29th 2000
From The Economist print edition

Practical applications are all well and good. But genomics can shed light on the nature of humanity, too

UNTIL the late 1980s, the most useful tools that could be deployed by people who were interested in human origins were the trowel and the cleaning brush. Fossil-hunters had done wonders uncovering specimens of early humanity that told a story of an African genesis, followed by the spread to Eurasia of a species called Homo erectus. But the emergence of modern man, Homo sapiens, was a mystery. Some researchers argued that modern people evolved in one place and then, like Homoerectus, spread out, though they did not agree about where and when this happened. Others believed that the whole erectus population gradually and simultaneously evolved into sapiens.

That argument was settled by genetics. The late Allan Wilson, a researcher at the University of California at Berkeley, managed to show the truth about human evolution without picking up a single trowel. He studied the pattern of DNA in people now alive, and produced a human family tree showing that the species emerged in Africa about 200,000 years ago and first left the continent to begin its worldwide spread 100,000 years ago.

MORE - see link above.
9 posted on 12/25/2004 5:12:47 PM PST by _Jim ( <--- Ann C. and Rush L. speak on gutless Liberals (RealAudio files))
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To: PatrickHenry

ping


10 posted on 12/25/2004 5:27:41 PM PST by Ksnavely
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To: Grut

Plotted out as a graph, [fossil dimensions] form the classic bell-shaped curve found using data from modern humans.

I'm pretty sure that if you graphed, say, the body masses of a few thousand critters chosen at random you'd get a bell curve, too. Not too good an argument for their all being the same species.




Actually, you would not. You would get a multi-modal distribution. For exaggerated example, take random sample of 1000 humans, 1000 dogs, 1000 elephants, 1000 possums, 1000 horses.

The point of the article is not that the distribution of these observations is normal, but that the observations fall well within the normal distribution of human population weights and heights, so it is not evident, at least from these measurements, that they are from different species.


11 posted on 12/25/2004 7:14:15 PM PST by Blue_Ridge_Mtn_Geek
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To: PatrickHenry

YEC SPOTREP


12 posted on 12/25/2004 8:55:14 PM PST by LiteKeeper (Secularization of America is happening)
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To: PatrickHenry

13 posted on 12/25/2004 8:55:27 PM PST by blam
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To: Blue_Ridge_Mtn_Geek
The point of the article is not that the distribution of these observations is normal, but that the observations fall well within the normal distribution of human population weights and heights, so it is not evident, at least from these measurements, that they are from different species.

The problem is that such a "weights and heights" measure is an extremely simplistic measure. Just because there are modern humans who are midgets, that doesn't mean that an Australopithecus would be taken for a "normal" modern human if one were to be brought to the present using a time machine. You'd still freak out if you saw one walk into the 7-11.

I don't know *any* modern humans who look even remotely like *this*:

Massive brow ridge, *NO* forehead, a braincase you could wrap your hand around like a football, a prominent protruding muzzle, small close-set eyes, jawbone larger than the braincase, etc. etc. Compare to the proportions and angles of a modern human skull:


14 posted on 12/25/2004 10:23:31 PM PST by Ichneumon
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To: Blue_Ridge_Mtn_Geek
You would get a multi-modal distribution.

I'd have to see that. My feeling is that a sufficiently large sample of all critters would approach a normal distribution. Samples from particular species would be buffered by samples from other species with similar, but not identical, attributes and the modes would be smoothed away.

But I could easily be wrong; statistics is not my best subject (!).

15 posted on 12/25/2004 10:33:42 PM PST by Grut
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To: mtbopfuyn

Trying to say something about John Kerry, Jesse Jackson, and Ted Kennedy, are you?


16 posted on 12/25/2004 10:35:33 PM PST by DennisR (Look around - there are countless observable hints that God exists)
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To: DennisR
You sound like a sexist, totally over looking the most recent hot cave dwellers. John, Jesse and Ted are all washed up cave gods of old. In this coming new age, we have cave godesses, lamp throwing Hilery, womp womp Opera and slick tennis shoe Patty from Washington State.
17 posted on 12/26/2004 1:33:54 AM PST by jackbob
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To: PatrickHenry
ape-like creatures to modern humans via knuckle-grazing

I doubt very much that human ancestors consumed knuckles to the exclusion of other body parts. It unlikely that they were even the preferred food.

18 posted on 12/26/2004 6:56:45 AM PST by Oztrich Boy (Never Apologise. Never Explain)
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To: PatrickHenry

read later


19 posted on 12/26/2004 7:01:42 AM PST by Sam Cree (Democrats are herd animals)
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To: jackbob

Sorry, man - was it that obvious? Okay, to right my wrongs, throw in Cantwell, Pelosi, Maxine, and our new governor Chris "I-used-to-be-called-Christine-until-I-ran-for-governor" Gregoire.

Does that make up for my wrongs? :)


20 posted on 12/26/2004 8:43:09 AM PST by DennisR (Look around - there are countless observable hints that God exists)
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