Posted on 12/18/2004 5:58:54 PM PST by DirtyHarryY2K
It’s a pretty safe bet that Hollywood will never make a movie called "The People vs. Michael Marcavage." When it comes to the subject of the First Amendment, the Hollywood left only takes it up on behalf of pornographers, strippers and other such fascinating victims. Evangelical street preachers are not worthy of such celebration or protection.
The film "The People vs. Larry Flynt," starring Woody Harrelson and Courtney Love, on the other hand, not only got made, it was showered with praise and awards. It was hailed as a patriotic salute to freedom of speech, and Larry Flynt was heralded as a savior of the First Amendment.
Lansdowne’s Marcavage has not been so honored. But this is understandable. Among other things, he and his group, Repent America, believe it is important to show the world the graphic effects of abortion. They use poster-sized photographs of bloody and dismembered fetuses to get their point across.
Many people who are forced to view such photos are appalled. They dislike Marcavage and his followers for shoving the reality of abortion in their faces.
Then there are his efforts to bring his idea of God’s message to gay people.
In October, Marcavage attended a gay pride event in Philadelphia called OutFest. He and his group attempted to inform the revelers they were all going to Hell if they did not change their ways.
Having announced his plan to bring his street ministry to the event, the gay and lesbian organizers came up with their own plan to keep Marcavage’s message from being heard. When Repent America arrived, the "Pink Angels" -- a group of gays with large, pink Styrofoam placards -- greeted them. Apparently, their plan was to surround Marcavage and drown out his message.
At first, they blocked his group from entering the event. But since it was being held on a public street, this was illegal. Marcavage, a man who thrives on confrontation and knows the law, pointed this out to police officers. His group was escorted past the Pink Angels. But when he tried to speak, the Pink Angels started blowing whistles and yelling obscenities at him.
Police tried to direct Marcavage’s group to a particular spot far away the main stage. But when Marcavage tried to move closer, police arrested him.
He and 10 others were charged with rioting, reckless endangerment, obstructing a highway, failing to disperse, disorderly conduct, ethnic intimidation and possessing an instrument of crime. A gun? A knife? No. A bullhorn, through which he quoted biblical scripture.
Whatever you think of Repent America, it’s hard to argue that its members’ civil rights were respected in this incident. Moreover, the charges levied against them are ridiculous. A video of the incident makes it pretty clear that Marcavage’s group was not rioting or otherwise breaking the law.
Nonetheless, after reviewing the video, a Philadelphia municipal court judge held there was sufficient evidence to proceed to trial.
"This case is historic," says Marcavage’s attorney, C. Scott Shields, "..the first criminal case in the history of our nation where openly preaching the word of God and quoting scripture on signs at a public gay and lesbian event formed the evidentiary basis for a hate-crime charge."
Shields, of Media, has known of Marcavage’s religious activism for several years.
"I was turned off until I saw him in action." He’s no fire-and-brimstone guy, Shields says. "He’s very peaceful with what he does."
Just last July, his client was forcibly carried out of a Lansdowne Borough Council meeting for questioning the efforts of some in the borough to make Lansdowne one of the more attractive gay destinations in Delaware County.
"He only spoke for two minutes before he was dragged out of the room," Shields said, and he has the videotape to prove it.
Since being carted off to a mental ward at the direction of Temple University officials five years ago, says Shields, "He’s gotten smart. He doesn’t do these things without a (video) production company with him."
At the Lansdowne meeting, his client only talked for two minutes before his reading from the Bible was deemed "hate speech" and the meeting was adjourned.
This is bizarre.
Remember those old movies where religious nuts would go around saying "Repent -- the end is near?" Nobody was particularly threatened by them. They were simply made fun of. Today, they are arrested and charged with hate crimes.
What are gays and non-believers so threatened by? Where is the tolerance they so demand from others? And what are the police thinking? Just because someone invokes the name of Jesus doesn’t mean their civil rights can be brushed aside. Marcavage has every bit as much right to non-violently spout his religious views as gays have the right to publicly celebrate their homosexuality.
What’s going on here?
Michael Marcavage will be happy to tell you.
Sunday.
Gil Spencer’s column appears Sunday, Wednesday and Friday. E-mail him at spencer@delcotimes.com.
Yes, This is one of the few issues that you have to be on one side or the other. Devil's advocate is one thing but it's literal in this case.
DITTO
God .. he's the one thing that can't control
Well said, thanks for your thoughts.
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. 13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony. 14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: 15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist. 16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. 17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake. 18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish. 19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
All of this has been prophesized long ago. Homosexuals have a reprobate mind and are marked for destruction. They still have time to "repent, believe the Gospel, and "Go and Sin no more". BUT ... will they???
Homosexual Agenda Overlap Moral Abolutes ping. (Let me know if anyone wants on/off/back on either pinglist.)
Take especial note of comment #5.
It's easy for some people to slough off incidents like these, or like the assault on Koresh and the Branch Davidians - they were "nutcases" or "fanatics". Well, maybe they are, and maybe they aren't. Do we trust the MSM to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
And as I commented to another freeper: (on one of the other threads about this)
To: FierceDraka
[FierceDraka's comments] "You're right - religious fanatics are quite dangerous and have no place in polite society. By fanatics, I mean pushy, arrogant thugs who scream at people to repent or else - not sincere believers who live by the best tenets of their particular faith."
[My response] "I am no admirer of the type of fanatics you describe. But one person's fanatic is another person's sincere believer. You use the words "arrogant thug" - you mean preachers who beat people up, or do you just mean anyone who isn't polite and quiet sitting at home?
The problem with your statement is that the world is not always polite, and to make it polite, many of us will have to be sedated, incarcerated, or submit to electro-shock therapy.
Exactly who would be deciding who is a sincere believer and who is a religious fanatic?
Is freedom of speech only for those who speak in correct grammar, measured tones, and off to the side every other Tuesday?
Thought you would enjoy this interview with Marcavage....
Michael Marcavage wasn’t hard to recognize when I met him for lunch Friday. He was the one in the "Repent America" cap. That’s the name of the evangelical group he runs in Lansdowne. Marcavage, 24, is currently facing three felony charges and a host of misdemeanors for doing little more than exercising his First Amendment rights at a gay pride festival in Philadelphia. But more about that blatant violation of this group’s free speech rights some other time.
Me, I wanted to see if Marcavage was as big a nut as he has been made out to be. So I invited him to lunch for a little Q and A.
He ordered a cheeseburger, I ordered a club sandwich and we got down to it.
Q: Do you think your tactics -- the photos of the aborted babies and your appearances at the gay rights rallies -- are effective in changing hearts and minds?
A: Without question. When we go out into the public square and proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ and speak to the issues of our day -- abortion, homosexuality, sin issues -- we do it in a way that is in according to the scripture. Isaiah 58:1 says "Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and show my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins." The Bible calls for us to show people their transgressions.
Q: But how do you know it’s effective?
A: We see people whose hearts are changed. We see people in tears, people who decided they don’t want to be supporting this any longer. People who want to come out of the lifestyle of homosexuality. I get e-mails and phone calls from people who are struggling with homosexuality, and people contacting me who have been hurt by abortion. So it is effective.
Q: You’ve been arrested about a dozen times. Do you like getting arrested?
A: No. I don’t enjoy it. I don’t enjoy spending time in jail. But I take great joy in that I’ve been able to serve the King in this way. Being arrested for a faith, that is something the scripture tells us we should take pleasure in.
Q: Would violence ever be justified to prevent abortion?
A: We need to do whatever we can to protect unborn children. I don’t think (violence) is wise. I believe unborn children deserve the same protection as born children. But I don’t advocate violence. I don’t think it’s right.
Q: Do you think the media has been fair to you? Do you use the media to get your message out?
A: I never seek out media, other than notifying what happened at a particular time. I think it is important that people are aware that certain things have happened, especially regarding the erosion of freedom of speech and the exercise of religion here in America -- the attack on Christianity. Christianity is being criminalized by the homosexual agenda. No question about it. When you look at the agenda, you’re now "speaking hatred" by simply declaring the gospel of Jesus Christ.
In Philadelphia ..we were in the midst of many people who were enraged, blowing whistles loudly, following us, harassing, obstructing, impeding our way. This was not addressed by the police. And now we are being aggressively prosecuted by city officials. I think that is an example of how Christianity is being criminalized.
Q: Do you have a problem with Lansdowne having an openly gay councilman?
A: I do have a problem with an openly homosexual councilman. You know William Penn has a great quote about those who rule must rule in the fear of God and must be ruled by God. I believe we need godly governance. And we need people who are going to fear God.
Q: Sounds like you want a theocracy.
A: I don’t know if that is the proper labeling of what I’m seeking. But I do know that we must honor God, because he is obviously the creator, the force of all truth.
Q: You cite the Bible a lot when condemning homosexuality and abortion. But doesn’t the Bible also say that it will be easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God? Why not take that message to rich people, or is greed not a serious enough sin?
A: Well, it is. And so is drunkenness, so is adultery and so are all these other things. But what’s unique about abortion and homosexuality is they’re celebrated so openly in the public square ..which makes them the most threatening.
Q: Some people perceive what you do as hate speech. Why are they wrong?
A: Because we come in love. They may perceive it to be "hate speech" because it speaks directly to their sin. For instance, if my neighbor is an adulterer, would it be loving for me to ignore that situation while I know that he’s cheating on his wife? I think it’s loving to go that neighbor and tell him that what he’s doing is wrong, that it’s a sin.
Q: What’s wrong with minding your own business?
A: Because minding your own business is not love. If you love someone, then you want them to understand that if they don’t turn from their sin, they are going to end up in hell for all eternity. I don’t think that it’s loving to say nothing.
So, to the question: Is Michael Marcavage a nut? I think the answer is: absolutely. But no more than your average Flyers or Eagles fan. Or gay-rights activist. To steal a line from their playbook: Get over it.
Gil Spencer’s column appears Sunday, Wednesday and Friday. E-mail gspencer@delcotimes.com.
Thanks for posting that transcript.
I with hold any judgement about Macarvage. I don't know him, have only read a few articles (undoubtedly not all unbiased) but to me it looks crystal clear that his freedom of speech rights (and other rights) have been violated numerous times because his message is unpopular, and he's not staying on the reservation.
The type of fanatics I don't admire are those who are angry, yell in peoples' faces and are essentially nutcases. But it is not against the law to be a nutcase, nor does anyone have a "right" to never have to see or hear a nutcase.
And who decides who is a nutcase, after all? There are plenty, inluding many on FR, who think I'm a nutcase, and probably you too! Even if I don't "admire" someone, that doesn't mean I think they should receive the ill treatment Macarvage has received; and I don't know enough about Macarvage one way or another to know if he's a "nutcase" or not.
The main reservation I have about him is the Brother Steven case, and it's not clear at all what is the truth in that situation. Could have been a setup, or could be the truth. People have been setup like that before; but if B. Steven was soliting the teenager, and Macarvage supported him, that is terrible. But from what I've read about it on FR, I have no idea.
One guy who brought this all to our attention thinks it's true, but then he called Macarvage's message "hatred".
:-/
Q: Do you have a problem with Lansdowne having an openly gay councilman?
A: I do have a problem with an openly homosexual councilman. You know William Penn has a great quote about those who rule must rule in the fear of God and must be ruled by God. I believe we need godly governance. And we need people who are going to fear God.
Then add to that the fact that they decided to arrest the group two days after he filed a lawsuit against them gives me a lot to think about.
Seems to me The state of Pennsylvania just recently passed (in the last few months) laws that added "sexual orientation" to the hate crime laws.
I have been giving this a lot of thought. The author is exactly right. Whether Free Republic or folks on Free Republic want to support them or not is a separate issue. At this point in time I am leaning toward supporting them.
One point that is, IMO, vital, is this: does freedom of speech only mean people we think are pure as the driven snow, saying exactly what we would say, and in the same manner can have that right?
(Porn is a whole 'nother issue. Larry Flynt has given up all claims to being human.)
Congent points, to be sure.
They're gearing up for Hatespeech. No doubt about it.
Any criticism of homosexuality is going to be labeled "hatespeech", unless conservatives step up to the plate.
From hatespeeh laws, it's a hop, skip and a jump to involuntary mental hospital commitment, as I mentioned before even reading about Macargave's three hour experience.
Anyone think this is paranoia? There's a lot of precedent - the USSR.
No doubt about it.
There was another thread on the same article. I was on this one: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1302716/posts
I've contacted the AFA and offered my services for any video needs in this case, free of charge. If anyone has any contact info for the defense attorneys in the case, I'll contact them directly to make the offer.
MM
FR Compiliation: Background on Michael Marcavage (Leader of Christian Group Arrested in Philly) He has done a magnificent job linking all the info together.
I'm sure you can find anything you want to know about Repent America on that thread.
Good post. It is sad...though it throughly describes the human condition that has existed since Adam and Eve.
AFA Divisions Center for Law and Policy
Did not see an email addy for Fahling on the site.
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