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School defends slavery booklet (Critic says text is 'window dressing')
News Observer ^ | Dec 9, 2004 | T. KEUNG HUI

Posted on 12/12/2004 12:21:53 PM PST by mac_truck

Students at one of the area's largest Christian schools are reading a controversial booklet that critics say whitewashes Southern slavery with its view that slaves lived "a life of plenty, of simple pleasures." Leaders at Cary Christian School say they are not condoning slavery by using "Southern Slavery, As It Was," a booklet that attempts to provide a biblical justification for slavery and asserts that slaves weren't treated as badly as people think.

Principal Larry Stephenson said the school is only exposing students to different ideas, such as how the South justified slavery. He said the booklet is used because it is hard to find writings that are both sympathetic to the South and explore what the Bible says about slavery.

"You can have two different sides, a Northern perspective and a Southern perspective," he said.

'SOUTHERN SLAVERY, AS IT WAS' Here are some excerpts from the booklet:

* "To say the least, it is strange that the thing the Bible condemns (slave-trading) brings very little opprobrium upon the North, yet that which the Bible allows (slave-ownership) has brought down all manner of condemnation upon the South." (page 22)

* "As we have already mentioned, the 'peculiar institution' of slavery was not perfect or sinless, but the reality was a far cry from the horrific descriptions given to us in modern histories." (page 22)

* "Slavery as it existed in the South was not an adversarial relationship with pervasive racial animosity. Because of its dominantly patriarchal character, it was a relationship based upon mutual affection and confidence." (page 24)

* "Slave life was to them a life of plenty, of simple pleasures, of food, clothes, and good medical care." (page 25)

(Excerpt) Read more at newsobserver.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Extended News; Philosophy; US: North Carolina
KEYWORDS: cary; christian; christianschools; classicaleducation; confederacy; confederate; dixie; fact; history; opinion; pc; slave; slavery; south; thoughtpolice
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To: saquin

"But some things are right or wrong no matter what the century and I'd think "human beings should not be owned like cattle" would be one of those basic things."

So it seems to us now, but that was not always the case. There is a partial response to that in note 111.

"Especially in a country whose founding document asserts that all men are created equal."

Among those who didn't think that Negroes were "equal" enough to enter white society was Abraham Lincoln.

"So no one can argue that people in that time period just didn't understand the moral questions."

Actually, you can. You can also argue that, having studied the matter, they came to a different conclusion from us. What you can't argue is that they were motivated by sheer perversity and malice.

"And I'm amazed by the attitude of so many here who usually lambast "moral relativism" when practiced by the left."

Those who oppose you are not engaging in moral relativism; they are simply taking human limitations into account. You can't demand more of people than they were capable of giving.


161 posted on 12/12/2004 9:18:41 PM PST by dsc
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To: dsc
What you can't argue is that they were motivated by sheer perversity and malice.

Why not? I can absolutely argue that. The 1800s were not that long ago, you know, and there's little reason to think human beings had no understanding that owning other human beings was wrong. That they chose to ignore that truth can certainly be seen as evidence of perversity and malice, probably allied with the age-old human condition called "greed" and simply getting away with whatever you're allowed to get away with.

And anyway, the whole point about this pamphlet is that it's not a 19th century account of a slaveholder's point of view, read in context along with slave narratives for historical purposes. It's a modern treatise that attempts to argue that slavery was not so bad and slaves were happy being slaves. That has nothing to do with the particular moral viewpoint or motivations of slaveholders in the 1800s. It asserts something that is not only unsupportable by fact but reprehensible.

162 posted on 12/12/2004 10:26:13 PM PST by saquin
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To: saquin

"The 1800s were not that long ago, you know, and there's little reason to think human beings had no understanding that owning other human beings was wrong."

Not only is there reason to think that, it is demonstrated. Slavery had been in existence for millennia; it was a fact of life. The consciousness that it was a moral wrong did not explode in the minds of every human being simultaneously. It took root slowly, and grew slowly.

When a person was born into a slave-owning society, and brought up to believe all the arguments justifying it, you can argue with him and tell him he's wrong, but you can't point the finger at him and say, "You should have known." That's demanding too much.

"And anyway, the whole point about this pamphlet is that...(it) attempts to argue that slavery was not so bad and slaves were happy being slaves."

Ah, I think I begin to see the disconnect here. It's right there in that phrase "not so bad."

The question of whether slavery is morally wrong and the question of how slaves were treated are separate. The one does not depend on the other.

You seem to think that an assertion that a slave owner treated his slaves well is a justification of slavery. That is not the case. Even if a slave owner treated his slaves like his own children, slavery is still a moral evil.

However, and this is a big however, the truth is the truth. Even if we hate like poison that slaves were not treated as badly as we have been led to believe, if that is the truth, we must still face it.

"That has nothing to do with the particular moral viewpoint or motivations of slaveholders in the 1800s."

The question of whether slavery is a moral evil has nothing to do with that. However, the question of the character and moral standing of slaveholders has everything to do with their particular moral viewpoint and motivations.

"It asserts something that is not only unsupportable by fact but reprehensible."

It does not assert, as far as I know, that slavery is not a moral evil. It does assert that slaves were treated better than many people have been led to believe. And, since that is true, it is not reprehensible to assert it.

Southerners have been demonized as the sort of slavering brutes you seem to think them, by assertions that they treated their slaves much worse than they actually treated them.

From your point of view, Southerners (all the millions of them) were perverse, malicious brutes, abusing their slaves for amusement.

From mine, they bear the moral onus of owning slaves, but they only take the rap for such abuse as actually occurred.

It seems that you can't imagine how a person could own slaves and still be a decent person in other regards. Southerners must be demons.

I don't know what else to tell you, except to try and wrap your mind around the concept that a slaveowner could still feel real empathy for his slaves, without it occurring to him that the institution was a moral evil.


163 posted on 12/12/2004 10:59:48 PM PST by dsc
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To: dsc
It seems that you can't imagine how a person could own slaves and still be a decent person in other regards. Southerners must be demons.

Most Southerners were not slaveowners.

Oh, I'm sure many slaveowners could be decent "in other regards". That's true of many people who engage in wrongdoing. That doesn't, however, excuse what they did. Neither does whitewashing the horrid instutution of slavery, as this pamphlet does.

I've learned a lot here today about some Freepers. I've been here since 1997 but I was still surprised today. We could go back and forth for days on this and not see eye to eye. But it's late here so, G'night.

164 posted on 12/12/2004 11:16:24 PM PST by saquin
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To: Kornev

"There's on this."

Well, if those moral lepers are thrown into convulsions by something I've said...I must be on the right track.


165 posted on 12/13/2004 12:47:29 AM PST by dsc
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To: saquin

"I've learned a lot here today about some Freepers."

Well, no, I don't think you have. After everything I've written, you're still going on about "excusing" and "whitewashing," even though no one has attempted to do any excusing or whitewashing.

"We could go back and forth for days on this and not see eye to eye."

Apprently. I don't know what it would take. Seems to me you only see case A or case B, but the reality is case C.

"But it's late here so, G'night."

Good night.


166 posted on 12/13/2004 1:09:52 AM PST by dsc
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To: yarddog
"It might not matter to you if the slave was comfortable and well cared for, or worked to death in the mines of ancient Syracuse, but to the slave I suspect it mattered quite a bit."

Which would be a significant comment if it related to my point even slightly. What I was saying is that the destruction of the spirit of both the slave and the slave owner was as complete irrespective of the care or lack thereof given the slave.

167 posted on 12/13/2004 2:28:20 AM PST by muir_redwoods
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To: muir_redwoods
I have read letters from soldiers during the Civil War, both North and South, also letters from their families. Letters from immigrants to home. I get the impression they were better people than we are.

Kinder, more loving, braver, and tougher. Still there was evil going on. Slavery in the South, horrible working conditions in the North, and not just for men. Riots, real police brutality, including kangaroo courts. Children working long hours in dangerous conditions. Slums for immigrants, and even worse slums for Blacks.

For some reason, people want to concentrate only on slavery and only in the American South. The reason is obvious. They aren't really interested in doing good, they are interested in attacking their neighbor while overlooking their own evil.

168 posted on 12/13/2004 5:13:23 AM PST by Shanda
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Comment #169 Removed by Moderator

To: FrankWild
The Cary Christian school has made no pronouncements other than to state that the booklet in question is no longer part of their school curriculum.

Apparently, the authors engaged in a fair amount of plagerism when writing it.

170 posted on 12/13/2004 8:18:18 AM PST by mac_truck (Aide toi et dieu l’aidera)
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Comment #171 Removed by Moderator

To: kenth; CatoRenasci; Marie; PureSolace; Congressman Billybob; P.O.E.; cupcakes; Amelia; Diana; ...

172 posted on 12/13/2004 10:39:42 AM PST by Born Conservative (Entertainment is a thing of the past, today we've got television - Archie Bunker)
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To: FrankWild

As a resident of a "squallid ghetto" in Philadelphia,

my answer is YES, the quality of life is better.

Because I have a CHANCE. Just knowing that, makes a world of difference. As a child, I could still receive an education, even if the public schools were bad. Nothing hindered my education at home. As a slave, anyone teaching me would be punished and I might be killed.

I can save my money and make a better life for myself. I can go where-ever I please, whenever I please. And I can defend myself if anyone tries to lay a hand on me.

Yes, there are many different forms of "slavery". But nothing changes the fact that those of us in the ghetto still have our God-given rights, even if some are not making much use of them.


173 posted on 12/13/2004 10:41:55 AM PST by DameAutour ("The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be when you kill them.")
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Comment #174 Removed by Moderator

To: FrankWild
...is the quality of life in many of the most squalid ghettos in America- Detroit, Baltimore, East St. Louis, Gary, Philadelphia etc.- any better than living as a slave on a productive plantation?

I'd have to say that the most squalid ghetto in the United States today would pale in comparison to the living conditions faced by mid-nineteenth century immigrant Americans. As far as I know, none of them ever volunteered to move south and become slaves.

175 posted on 12/13/2004 11:23:06 AM PST by mac_truck (Aide toi et dieu l’aidera)
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Comment #176 Removed by Moderator

Comment #177 Removed by Moderator

To: pbrown
Re: "The future will have to look at our actions today, and judge them by todays standards."

I have to disagree but then I subscribe to a universal and timeless truth. I think it is presumptive of the people today to look at the past and pronounce them innocent by way of ignorance, "they don't know no better". That may work for things such as medical treatments based on faulty understanding of illness but to operate on the notion that common decency toward your fellow man is beyond their comprehension is an error. Man in the past (and you can go back as far as you wish) had a capacity for sophistication that would be equal to any one alive today. Consider Plato or Cato, Dante or Shakespeare. They make anyone today pale at the thought of going up against them on human relationships and interaction. The Bible makes Freud or Jung look like rank armatures, because they are. It is one thing to see the past as inferior in some areas of Science but they are just as good at rationalizing and intellectualizing their mistreatment of their fellow man as anyone in the sex industry, or abortion mills, or exploitation of immigrants, or genetic experimentation. Monsters all and truth be told would get along quite with well with any brutal slave holder.
178 posted on 12/13/2004 12:21:07 PM PST by Mark in the Old South (Note to GOP "Deliver or perish" Re: Specter I guess the GOP "chooses" to perish)
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To: rdb3

Slavery still exists in Africa but is ignored by American black leaders. It seems as if blacks owning other blacks is OK with them.


179 posted on 12/13/2004 12:25:51 PM PST by bayourod (Our troops are already securing our borders against terrorists. They're killing them in Iraq.)
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To: Shanda
You are right but keep in mind the topic is a school that is teaching about slavery in the American South. It should not surprise if that is where the focus is and where it should be. It is one thing to mention slavery in other areas and other times but it should not be a means to change the subject.
180 posted on 12/13/2004 12:25:52 PM PST by Mark in the Old South (Note to GOP "Deliver or perish" Re: Specter I guess the GOP "chooses" to perish)
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