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1 posted on 11/27/2004 11:30:26 PM PST by JohnHuang2
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To: JohnHuang2
Is homosexuality inborn? Is it caused by outside influences? And, regardless of where it comes from, can it be changed? The answer to all three questions is: yes and no.

Hmmm..., that's a queer answer if you ask me....

2 posted on 11/27/2004 11:32:39 PM PST by freebilly ("Body parts everywhere!")
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To: JohnHuang2

If it is born (which it's not) look for the entitlements to be demanded. It's the key to hand outs and perceved respect.


3 posted on 11/27/2004 11:33:44 PM PST by endthematrix ("Hey, it didn't hit a bone, Colonel. Do you think I can go back?" - U.S. Marine)
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To: JohnHuang2
It's possible, said University of Toronto psychology professor Ray Blanchard and others, that hormonal changes which occur in a mother's immune system after having several male children might affect a later-born son and somehow predispose him to homosexuality.

It's also possible, and more probable, that the oldest son is the one who gets the attention lavished on him by his father. By the time more sons are born, the attention gets diminished and the younger sons who require love and attention from their father, but don't receive it, seek the attention in other forms.

That's the whole problem with these studies. There's always another rational explanation on the other (nurture) side of the equation. In order to come to some kind of determination that changes in the mother's immune system somehow causes her son to be sexually attracted to someone of the same sex would take a whole heap of pretzel logic.

4 posted on 11/27/2004 11:45:45 PM PST by Shethink13
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To: JohnHuang2

They should have asked Kerry if he was born a horses' ass or did he just become one by choice.


8 posted on 11/27/2004 11:53:33 PM PST by Bullish
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To: JohnHuang2

They obviously didn't include an acquaintence of mine in their study. Married at the age of twentyfive he had three children before he 'discovered' he was gay.


9 posted on 11/27/2004 11:55:06 PM PST by Fred Nerks (Understand Evil: Read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD. Click Fred Nerks for link.)
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To: JohnHuang2

I'm still awaiting the discovery of the defective mutant gene that causes Democratism.


10 posted on 11/27/2004 11:56:48 PM PST by CardCarryingMember.VastRightWC (The heart of the wise man inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left. - Eccl. 10:2)
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To: JohnHuang2
There are more queers on the streets, in the bars , in the schools teaching your little ones, in the work place and even the churches. They're everywhere. Think about it. Not one queer "couple" has reproduced. It's not born in them. It''s a choice. They choose it. They choose to leave it.

It came into being with evil in the Garden of Eden. We are all sinner's and we acquired our sin in the Garden. It rears it's ugliness in each of us in many different ways. The only way to deal with it is through our Savior, Jesus Christ. Even so, we still have our sin nature until He takes us home. Like any sin, it can be overcome through constant prayer and self control but that takes a direct relationship with the One who came to save us, Jesus.
13 posted on 11/28/2004 12:04:14 AM PST by Oreo Kookey (How, indeed, do we click our tongues at beheadings and look the other way from abortion? I weep.)
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To: JohnHuang2

So what does science say?

How about, what does God say?


14 posted on 11/28/2004 12:05:11 AM PST by taxesareforever
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To: JohnHuang2

I don't think science has been able to establish the origins of fornication, idolatry, adultery, or covetousness (etc.) either.


15 posted on 11/28/2004 12:11:29 AM PST by so_real (It's all about sharing the Weather)
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To: JohnHuang2

And what of Darwin -evolution theory, if believed, based upon lack of procreative ability -would suggest genetic homosexual origin a disordered mutation...


16 posted on 11/28/2004 12:11:41 AM PST by DBeers
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To: JohnHuang2
"The relationship between sexual plasticity and sexual orientation in women has yet to be explored."

I say we look into it

21 posted on 11/28/2004 12:18:50 AM PST by woofie
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To: JohnHuang2
"Decades of research all point to the fact that..."

Homosexual advocates are persistent...

22 posted on 11/28/2004 12:25:24 AM PST by DBeers
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To: JohnHuang2

I wonder if homosexuality is tied in with hermaphrodites and other freakish birth defects.

Homosexuality could also be the way nature is culling the misfits out of the gene pool. Their sexual orientation keeps them from reproducing.


25 posted on 11/28/2004 1:34:53 AM PST by Sixgun Symphony
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To: JohnHuang2
"I think if you talk to anybody, it's not choice."~John sKerry

One word: prison. That's not choice, but it is often ignored in the argument.

There are sexual predators that either force or manipulate their will upon the young, innocent, weak, confused, etc. It happens in prison and outside of prison, too.

27 posted on 11/28/2004 2:25:51 AM PST by Ruth A.
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To: JohnHuang2

Years of study have proven that a certain theologin from
Princeton named Hodge was correct when he said essentially
that Darwins theory of Evolution was a cloak for Darwins atheism.Science has never disproven Scripture--but has
confirmed the Biblical accounts on many occasions. When
Scripture declares homosexual behavior is "unnatural" it is just as much factual today as when the Apostle Paul said it.
True Science will Never prove homosexual behavior is not a
choice.But we live in an age when the apostate unbelievers
govern our education and society.


29 posted on 11/28/2004 5:39:49 AM PST by StonyBurk
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To: JohnHuang2
Well, I'm a butt man... I like a nice protruding butt on a woman.. With men its just something to be "wiped".. I call it the Toilet Paper syndrome.. Is it a work of art or merely something to be "wiped".. In the genes?.. I think not.. Its something very basic to human nature though.. Is it "wipe-able" or something beyond the "wipe".. I'll call that Super-wipeable.. Queerdom, probably comes from personal wiping experiences.

I.E. Experiencing a BAD personal wipe, or a wipe that has somehow gone nastily wrong can put human sexual proclivities into the proper frame of mind ..and.. Letting kids SEE what they are "wipeing" on themselves would probably cure any Man / Man, Woman / Woman confusions.. That is if it didn't ruin their attention to sex completely until later in life..

35 posted on 11/28/2004 7:58:29 AM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to included some fully orbed hyperbole....)
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To: JohnHuang2
Simple Darwinian thinking should demonstrate that even a recessive genetic cause would be extinguished over time. The best explanation I've heard is that homosexuality is developed intrauterine. The developing fetus goes through three stages of exposure to testosterone. The first one determines gender identity, the second, secondary sexual characteristics and the third sexual orientation. Any under or over exposure to testosterone can cause abnormalities. That is why you can have femme lesbians, macho gays and everything in between.

It also seems that this developmental process is mediated by stress - maternal, familial and societal. The higher the levels of stress, the more likely developmental abnormalities will appear. For example, it's been shown that in contained populations of mice, if the population grows beyond a certain size, the percentage of homosexual mice will rise.

The other factor is that even if there is a homosexual developmental abnormality, heterosexual behavior or 'lifestyle choice' is still very possible. In fact for years in most societies a large percentage of homosexuals chose a heterosexual life. Psychologically, this was a burden on them, but not having to face the societal consequences were deemed important enough to make the choice.

What has changed in our society is that the societal consequences have graduly faded away. This has emboldened developmentallly determined homosexuals to assert their right to live a homosexual lifestyle and even to declare it to be 'normal'.

Most societies in most times in history (there are exceptions - ancient Greece) have understood the need to sanction homosexual lifestyles. We have the 'luxury' of not doing that because not every man is needed to created bonded male groups for defense, etc.

37 posted on 11/28/2004 8:16:29 AM PST by ZeitgeistSurfer
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To: JohnHuang2
"Decades of research all point to the fact that sexual orientation is not a choice and that a person's sexual orientation cannot be changed," say homosexual rights groups such as Human Rights Campaign...

That's completely untrue. Here's a collection of articles that debunk the "born that way" misinformation. Plus the tens of thousands of former homosexuals tell us homosexuals can change.

       Homosexuality and Genetics


Year

      Title
Posted
On FR



2004 
'This is the Way God Made Me': A Scientific Examin Yes
  What About the 'Gay Gene'? An Honest Look at the E No
  Homosexuality: The Essentialist Argument Continues No
  Homosexuality is not biologically determined - lat Yes
  The Animal Homosexuality Myth No
  Fencing with the NY Times Over Gay Marriage No
  Expert Gives Powerful Testimony in Defense of the Yes
  Born or Bred? Science Does Not Support the Claim T No
  Gays in Society: The Growing Clash N/A
2003 
Homosexuality: Innate and Immutable? No
  Ad campaigns duel over 'ex-gays' No
  'Cure' for homosexuality? No
  Study Trumpeted by Health Writer as Evidence that Yes
  Of mice and gay men Yes
  Newswriters Represent New Study As Proof Of Biolog Yes
  Homosexuality and Genes: Déjà vu All Over Again? Yes
  Can Homosexuals Change? No
2002 
The Importance of Twin Studies Yes
  The Gay Gene? No
  The Fading 'Gay Gene' No
  The Biological Research on Homosexuality No
  Is There a 'Gay Gene'? No
  Gay-To-Straight Research No
  Is Sexual Orientation Fixed at Birth? No
  Is Homosexuality Genetic? No
  Homosexual Researchers Debunk 'Born Gay' Urban Leg N/A
  Gender Identity Disorder No
  Finding a Needle in the Ocean No
  Facing The Truth About Homosexual Behavior N/A
2001 
The Innate-Immutable Argument Finds No Basis in Sc No
  The Gay Gene: Going, Going...Gone No
  A Change In Thinking No
2000 
What Is 'A Homosexual' No
  Lust, Violence & Genetics N/A
1999 
What Causes Homosexual Desire and Can It Be Change No
  Born What Way? No
1995 
How Might Homosexuality Develop? Putting the Piece No

38 posted on 11/28/2004 8:20:08 AM PST by scripter (Tens of thousands have left the homosexual lifestyle)
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To: JohnHuang2
Here's a growing list of articles regarding former homosexuals:

       Homosexuality and Ex-Homosexuals


Year

      Title
Posted
On FR



2004 
Critic Ignores Whole Truth About Ex-Gays N/A
  John Kerry's 'born-gay' science: Caleb Price debun Yes
  Kerry Discriminates Against Ex-Gays; He Denies The Yes
  Ex-Homosexuals Feel Insulted by Kerry's 'Born Gay' Yes
  More Than One Way Out Yes
  The Seeds That Grew Yes
  I Do Exist! -- New Video Focuses on Ex-Homosexuals Yes
  Changing minds Yes
 
Homosexuality and the Possibility of Change: Intro No
  Masters & Johnson. Homosexuality in Perspective. ( Yes
  The Great Escape (Mike Haley) Yes
  God's Amazing Grace (Stephen Bennett) No
  Matthew Manning's Testimony No
  Canada: Seven ex-gay clergy and laity to make stan N/A
  Study: Some Gays Can Go Straight Yes
  Eagles Wings Testimonies No
2002 
Confession from a former homosexual No
  At least 50 others here No
2001 
Former Homosexual Alleges EEOC Bias in Investigati No
2000 
TV show ridicules former homosexuals No

39 posted on 11/28/2004 8:25:34 AM PST by scripter (Tens of thousands have left the homosexual lifestyle)
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To: JohnHuang2
I find it interesting and frustrating that these high-powered psychologists seem to ignore the phenomenon of "imprinting."

This happens in many cases before the child is six years old and can occur in an instant.

One of the more bizzare examples is that of the people in London who were very young when the London blitz was on in 1940 and observed the adults donning gas masks to protect against potential attacks. Ever since, they get sexual arousal from seeing someone in a gas mask.

This is the effect of "imprinting."

52 posted on 11/28/2004 10:34:59 AM PST by nightdriver
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