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Good news for causality [Speed of Light]
PhysicsWeb ^ | 18 November 2004 | Belle Dumé

Posted on 11/20/2004 2:00:30 PM PST by PatrickHenry

Physicists in Switzerland have confirmed that information cannot be transmitted faster than the speed of light. Nicolas Gisin and colleagues at the University of Geneva have shown that the "group velocity" of a laser pulse in an optical fibre can travel faster than the speed of light but that the "signal velocity" - the speed at which information travels - cannot (N Brunner et al. 2004 Phys. Rev. Lett. 93 203902).

Two types of velocity are used to describe the propagation of a wave in a dispersive medium: the phase velocity and the group velocity. The phase velocity is the speed at which light of a single wavelength moves. However, pulses of light contain a range of wavelengths, which all move at different speeds in a dispersive medium. The group velocity is the speed at which the pulse moves. In particular, the energy travels at the group velocity rather than the phase velocity.

In recent years, physicists have shown that both these velocities can exceed the speed of light in certain situations without breaking the laws of special relativity. This means, therefore, that neither the group nor the phase velocity can be used to describe the speed at which the information in the pulse travels, and we need to define it by another velocity - the "signal velocity". This is defined as the speed at which the "front" of the pulse travels. According to relativity, this speed can never exceed the speed of light in a vacuum because, if it did, it would be equivalent to sending the signal backwards in time, which would violate causality.

In their experiment, Gisin and colleagues sent a pulse of polarized photons into an optical fibre that was sandwiched between an input and an output polarizer. The fibre is birefringent, which means that it splits the pulse into two pulses that are orthogonally polarized to each other. By carefully choosing the correct input and output polarizations, the Geneva team found that it could obtain constructive interference for photons at the front of the pulse and destructive interference for photons at the rear. Since only photons at the front give rise to a signal, the team was able to measure the time it took for these to arrive at a detector.

Gisin and colleagues plotted counts against the time-of-arrival of the photons (see figure). Using this graph, they calculated a mean group velocity that was 1.76 times the speed of light in vacuum. More importantly, they measured the signal velocity for the first time and showed that the increase in the group velocity does not increase the speed at which information travels.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: causality; einstein; lightspeed; physics; relativity; science
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The figure the article mentions is at the original article, so you'll have to follow the link.
1 posted on 11/20/2004 2:00:30 PM PST by PatrickHenry
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To: VadeRetro; jennyp; Junior; longshadow; RadioAstronomer; Physicist; LogicWings; Doctor Stochastic; ..
Science list Ping! This is an elite subset of the Evolution list.
See the list's description in my freeper homepage. Then FReepmail me to be added or dropped.
2 posted on 11/20/2004 2:01:29 PM PST by PatrickHenry (The all-new List-O-Links for evolution threads is now in my freeper homepage.)
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To: PatrickHenry

Any bets on how many posts it will take for the Luddites to swarm?


3 posted on 11/20/2004 2:04:47 PM PST by longshadow
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To: PatrickHenry
"confirmed that information cannot be transmitted faster than the speed of light."

They obviously did not perform research on my ex-wife in this study.

4 posted on 11/20/2004 2:06:04 PM PST by Tarpaulin (Look it up.)
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To: PatrickHenry

What does this say about Bell's work?

I thought all his stuff was confirmed by the Aspect experiments.


5 posted on 11/20/2004 2:06:16 PM PST by djf
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To: longshadow

The first 10 posts will be of the "Bush did it" type.


6 posted on 11/20/2004 2:06:29 PM PST by PatrickHenry (The all-new List-O-Links for evolution threads is now in my freeper homepage.)
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To: PatrickHenry

I'm curious about the "interval" between (1.0)C and (1.76)C. What vacuum property causes this (0.76) C difference? Interesting article! Ping.


7 posted on 11/20/2004 2:07:34 PM PST by eagle11 (Judge a religion not by the words of its adherents, but by their actions.)
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To: eagle11
What vacuum property causes this (0.76) C difference?

I donno. I just post 'em.

8 posted on 11/20/2004 2:10:28 PM PST by PatrickHenry (The all-new List-O-Links for evolution threads is now in my freeper homepage.)
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To: PatrickHenry

Ans. "a mean group velocity 1.76 times the speed of light in vacuum"
Ques. How long before the first Kerry insider writes a 'tell all" book?


9 posted on 11/20/2004 2:12:55 PM PST by billorites (freepo ergo sum)
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To: PatrickHenry

Well there goes my flux capacitor design.


10 posted on 11/20/2004 2:13:05 PM PST by flashbunny (Every thought that enters my head requires its own vanity thread.)
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To: longshadow

You might be suprised at how many "luddites" the "I'm smarter than you" comments will draw. If insults are the cost of learning, I'll just keep my pride and my ignorance thank you.


11 posted on 11/20/2004 2:13:27 PM PST by cripplecreek (I come swinging the olive branch of peace.)
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To: PatrickHenry
Within the first twenty posts there will be a limerick.
12 posted on 11/20/2004 2:14:03 PM PST by VadeRetro (Nothing means anything when you go to Hell for knowing what things mean.)
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A couple of related items:

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Quantum/bells_inequality.html

http://www.drchinese.com/David/EPR_Bell_Aspect.htm


13 posted on 11/20/2004 2:15:25 PM PST by djf
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To: PatrickHenry
Shouldn't this more accurately read, "Physicists in Switzerland have confirmed that information cannot be transmitted faster than the speed of light when using light as the medium and/or reference point"?
14 posted on 11/20/2004 2:16:57 PM PST by Pahuanui (When a foolish man hears of the Tao, he laughs out loud)
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To: PatrickHenry
Since only photons at the front give rise to a signal...

But since a photon can be in two places at one time until you observe it, can you really say one was breaking the speed limit while on a cell phone?

15 posted on 11/20/2004 2:17:48 PM PST by Joe Miner
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To: VadeRetro
"Within the first twenty posts there will be a limerick."

There was a young lady named Bright
Who traveled much faster than light
She started one day
In a Relative way
And returned on the previous night.

16 posted on 11/20/2004 2:18:00 PM PST by Tarpaulin (Look it up.)
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To: Tarpaulin
Thanks for preventing me from having to fulfill my own prophecy!
17 posted on 11/20/2004 2:18:47 PM PST by VadeRetro (Nothing means anything when you go to Hell for knowing what things mean.)
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To: VadeRetro
and next week they will prove that it can be ...... like the sound barrier all this obsessing about something that is so obvious ..... Albert would be very disappointed...
18 posted on 11/20/2004 2:20:37 PM PST by Gibtx (pajamahadeen call to arms.....)
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To: VadeRetro
Within the first twenty posts there will be a limerick.
When trying to undo causality,
Fritz removed himself from reality,
When he saw what he'd done,
He said: "This is such fun!"
"I never did really want to be."
It takes a minute or two to compose one of these things.
19 posted on 11/20/2004 2:20:54 PM PST by PatrickHenry (The all-new List-O-Links for evolution threads is now in my freeper homepage.)
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To: Pahuanui

Yes. The special theory of relativity is based on electromagnetic phenomena and the photon. The general theory adds gravity. There are apparently two other kinds of fields. Is there another way to look at this?


20 posted on 11/20/2004 2:21:34 PM PST by RightWhale (these are truths based upon your belief in Darwin's theory)
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