Posted on 11/14/2004 5:23:06 PM PST by Cyropaedia
In light of the upcoming film Alexander (the Great), who in your opinion were actually the greatest military commanders our world has known...?
Mine are Genghis Khan, Alexander, and U.S. Grant.
Depends on the level of operations. Do you mean strategic, operational, tactical or squad.
Strategic: Lee, Napoleon, Julius Caesar, Guderian, Tamberlane, G. Washington.
Operational: Stonewall Jackson, Grant, Longstreet, Meade, Rommel, Wellington, Alexander T. G., Sherman, Alexis Commenus, Patton, Zukov(the Russian General) Joe Johnston, Beuregard. Gandalf
Tactical: Early, Handcock, Cleburne, Gustav Adolphos, Nappy's Marshals MacDonald, Ney, and Murat, Stuart, Forrest, Wheeler, Sheridan, G. Washington, Hood.
Squad Level, General Han Solo, Sgt Stryker, Lt. Stahler(Squad Leader people will know) Rommel (read his book).
Ok thats my opinion. There are too many to narrow down any further.
Admiral Horatio Hornblower and John Wayne.
Lest we forget...Pancho Villa, the first to attack the Continental United States and get away with it. Also, Hernan Cortez and his brilliant tactical moves against overwhelming odds. And, talking about sheer courage, Cortez and his men had just been driven from Tenochtitlan and were facing certain death. As they sat there surrounded by the Aztec army which had driven them from the city, Cortez by himself jumped up and mounted his horse, rode through the enemy lines and killed the Aztec commander. The Aztecs fled, leaving Cortez and his remaining men to survive, lick their wounds, regroup and return some five months later to take the city.
Longstreet and Jackson; Hannibal
About as long as it did. Both Lee and Grant were outstanding military minds. Both did what they needed to do with the objectives they were assigned, and the men and materials they had available. Grant had the decided DISadvantage of having to fight an offensive war against entrenched forces, which usually resulted in a loss ratio of at least 2-1. One of the reasons Grant attacked the way he did was because he knew he could. There were men there to do it. Lee remained in trenches and fought because that's what his men did best. Neither of Lee's major offensive excursions into the north were ringing successes. He ran into the same problem Grant did, namely "how do you drive men out of trenches when they are defending their homes?".
I'd have to rate Lee as one of, if not THE best defensive general we've ever had. Grant would rank with Patton in my mind as one of the best offensive (read: attacking) generals in our history. To sell either Grant or Lee short based on what the other did is to rely on far too much presupposition. Had either had the other's position and resourses, no doubt their tactics would have changed, and they probably would've ended up mirroring one another.
Anyway, that war's over (sorry, "Southrons"). It's a shame Lee and Grant had to face one another instead of work together.
> John F. Kerry = Best tactical retreat strategist
Mais non, hee eez a deestant second... Les francais ont surrendre a beaucoup de pais! Recentment:
* Nous surrendre a Hitler!
* Nous surrendre au Soviet Union dureeeng le "Cold War"
* Nous surrendre a Islamofascism!
Le Kerry a seulement surrendre a North Vietnam, The Soviet Union, et l'Islamofascism... pas jamais Hitler! Les Francais sont premier du monde!
Chaka.
Yeah, and IF frogs HAD wings their asses wouldn't hit the ground when they jump. Lee was an outstanding general in terms of strategic planning, but a so-so commander. He might have done better if he and his lieutenants not bought into all of the hype about how great and undefeatable they were.
Alexander had certain tactical elements on his side as well.
"Philips Phalanx" was superior to the Greek Phalanx. We don't say that Thebes and Athens could have stood against Macedonia if they had adopted King Philips tactics.
Interesting post.
Arioch7 out.
Nathan Bradford Forrest
Jackson, Grant, Lee, Forrest, Alexander, Scott, Rommel, Napoleon, Scipio Africanus, Duke of Wellington, Hannibal
Hey, how about Captain Bligh? Sailing all that way back? Or it that just a myth?
What about Napoleon?
Most overrated general of all time. His rep stands on a few early victories based on reckless charging of the enemy (The same tactics John Kerry used in the 'nam). Impresses the yokels, but nobody talks about Napoleon's non stratergy losing the big ones: Egypt, Spain, Russia, and a little scrap in Belgium.
As Wellington said as another French charge broke on his carefully prepared defences at Waterloo. "dem me. The man's just a plodder after all"
His problem he was French and Wellington was English.
French tactics were the mass column charge smashing into and breaking the enemy. all very la gloire, but it only worked if the enemy was trained to co-operate.
As Marshal Soult observed after he lost the battle of Talaverna. "I had always thought the English were bad soldiers. Now I am certain. I had overwhelmed their centre, everywhere on the field victory was mine. But they did not know how to run away".
And that was the key how Wellington, who saw war as a profession, defeated the man who was fighting for la glorie: Don't run away. Prepare defences, stand the charge until you see the whites of their eyes, two volleys break the charging column, use the bayonet on the survivors.
This was England's greatest son
He that gained a thousand fights,
Now never lost an English gin
Lord Tennyson Ode on the Death of the Duke of Wellington
I think the "Lee legend" was created by those around him. Lee had too much humility to make any such claims and I doubt you could find any evidence of him ever making such claims.
GANDALF? GANDALF? Who the hell is that?
You shall not PASS!!!!!!!!
Got to agree really, but THAT Gandalf isn't actually, well, you know, a real person.
Becuase I'm from Maine and I can't resist...
Joshua Chamberlain.
And I know I'll get crap for this one, but what the hell...
Benedict Arnold (before he became a traitor)
And a man who deserves the MOH...Richard Winters.
Don't leave out Irwin Rommel who was not only a brilliant tactical commander but uncommonly courageous and a gentleman as well.
Certainly Patton and Thomas Jackson. And yes, God, the most able of all!:)
Certainly I am not an authority. But these stand out as extremely able commanders in my reading.
A few of the Indian leaders were also tacticians--Oceola, Chief Joseph, Geronimo?
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