The killing of Theo van Gogh and the aftermath - Report by a Dutch guy

[teezle]

I have read several comments by FReepers about the slaugthering of Theo van Gogh and see a lot of half truths about it. Therefore I will write this short report from Utrecht (The Netherlands).

Theo van Gogh was a very famous film maker and columnist in The Netherlands. His movies were about several topics including a remake of Romeo and Julia with a Dutch girl and a Morrocan immigrant. He was a very generous guy as all his friends mentioned at the funeral and a good citizen (working for his son's sportclub). His other side was his fun in provoking people. He has provoked almost every well-known person in the Netherlands. For instance, there has been a lawsuit against him for commenting: "It smells like caramel, they must be burning the Jews with diabetes". He just loved to create conflicts.

He has been sacked as a columnist numerous times and the last few years he used the free newspaper in public traffic and his website www.degezonderoker.nl (thehealthysmoker) for his insults. Last years a lot of his insults were pointed against Muslims which he always mentioned as goatf*uckers. And yes, that is possible in the NL. I read an article about a NYT reporter who was thinking how he was going to translate that. I read in the NYT that he finally used "bestiality with a goat". :-)

Another person in the NL who is trying to start a discussion about Muslims and the Koran is Ayaan Hirsi Ali (House of Representatives for the liberal party). She is originally from Somalia and when she was told to marry a guy she fled to the NL. She asked Theo van Gogh to do a short film about Mulims women surpression and he did. Ayaan has been threatened so many times (she is someone who is not Muslim anymore, don't know the word for that) that she got police protection 24/7. Theo did not want protection.

Last week Theo van Gogh was cycling through Amsterdam and Mohammed B. shot him several times, slit his throat and than stabbed two knifes in him. One was sticking a letter to Ayaan Hirsi Ali to his body.

That night 20.000 people were making a lot of noise on the Dam (square) in Amsterdam to make a statement that this will not be tolerated. Also several Muslim demonstrations have been held after Tuesday. And a few rightwing extremist (neo nazis) were having demonstrations but these were aborted by the police.

A few more people were arrested in the aftermath and police are searching Mohammed B.'s religious teacher. They both had contact with Samir A., the guy who was arrested for planning attacks against the House of Rep.

Mohammed B. was raised in the NL and was a normal (read: moderate Muslim) until two years ago. He started visiting more radical mosques, got a beard and started wearing djelaba's. People around him say that he started becoming radical after his mother died of cancer. But when he got radical they lost contact.

Since Theo van Gogh was not a normal guy his friends organised a party the day before his funeral. They even had a corner with goats behind a fence with a sign above it: "For people that have the urge". :-)

Since last Tuesday a few attacks have been commited against Islamic schools and mosques. This ranged from small fires to thrown-in windows. Apart from two other attacks: A bomb attack at a Islamic school in Eindhoven and yesterday a fire that burned down a Islamic school in Uden. Also several churces have been under attack in recent days and yesterday night (I cannot believe it) the church in the village I grew up at (Boxmeer) was set on fire (small one though).

This morning I woke up and learned that the terrorism police squad tried to enter a house in The Hague and got a grenade thrown at them. Three police men were hurt. The police is trying to prevent the thing that happened in Madrid (exploding house when they entered) and are still waiting to enter the house. It is now even prohibited to fly over The Hague.

I can tell you guys this. Living in the Netherlands at this moment in time is very unreal. The song I keep having in my head this morning is "We gotta get out of this place.." I am starting to think more and more that we are on the edge of a major conflict within the NL (as some of you guys have been telling al along), but I am not ready to give up on the Muslim community in the Netherlands.

If it happens I probably have move to another country (perhaps to America like Theo van Gogh was going to do when his son finally got 18, is now 12 I believe). We'll see...

Btw. People were questioning my Dutch decent because of my English but I lived in England for half a year so that's why.

If anyone has any questions about the Netherlands or the situation as of now, please feel free to ask.

Best, Teezle

[ArmedNReady]

I have a very good friend who came to the US from Holland 20 years ago. She recently returned to Holland for a visit. On returning from the visit she said "The muslims have taken over the country. I do not recognize the place, the Dutch culture is gone and the Dutch people live in fear of the muslims. I will never return to my homeland again."

The occurances in the Netherlands are just the beginning of a worldwide realization that Islam is not a religion but rather a cult of terrorists and murderers bent on subduing the world. Eventually, in countries where the governments appease muslims, the citizens will rise up against the curse of Islam and take care of matters themselves. Islam has spread its cancerous cells around the world and it it time to rid the world of this cancer before all that is non-muslim is destroyed. The only harmless muslim is a dead muslim.

[expatpat]

The Arabs are very aggressive salesmen. My wife and I visited Tangiers from Spain. On leaving the ferry, we were accosted by a whole bunch of them. The last 2 or 3 didn't stop until we'd walked half a mile!

[jb6]

I predict that the ravages of the escalating conflict with Islam will drive a lot of the "post" Christians back to the church and to conservative morals, that include reproduction. It is easy to be liberal while living in easy times, those times are already over, the population just hasn't sombored up enough to feel the hangover, but they can already smell the rising vomit. It'll get worse but it'll get better, for the survivors and the lessons learned will remain for generations.

Some times Christ or the Father punishes us to make us stronger.

[jb6]

Not that long ago, I remember almost all US media clogged with stories of "Why they hate us?". This is the EUers time. Sooner or later they will come to the conclusion, just like America did (something that Eastern Europe, India, Israel came to much earlier), we are not muslim, thus they hate us.

[Destro]

Kharmic kickback is a bitch.

[Tribune7]

Thanks teezle.

My idea is to declare any organization that says it acceptible to use violence to advance a religous or philosophical idea to be unprotected as far as speech and religous rights go.

[angkor]

"Why they hate us?"

Because Mad Mo and the Koran tells them so. Period. End of discussion.

That's the "root cause."

[cloud8]

Everything I've read about Theo van Gogh indicates that he was a thoroughly unpleasant man. I'm sure his brand of outrageous social commentary would not have been tolerated in America. And yet, van Gogh was assassinated for telling the truth. I wonder if he ever thought that he would become a martyr.

When extremists protected by a tolerant society abuse their freedom through violence, that society had better reassess itself lest it succumb.

It is no longer a question of whether tolerace and diversity can stave off a culture war. As it's been pointed out, America had her wake up call three years ago. The culture war has started, and the time for nuance has ended. The question for Europe is now, What side will you take?

[VOA]

bump

[Muzzle_em]

This makes us suspect that there really are no "moderate Muslims."
Radical Muslims blow themselves up.

Hard-line Muslims buy the bombs for the Radicals.

Moderate Muslims write checks to the hard-liners.


EXCELLENT POINT!!!

[mac_truck]

Last week Theo van Gogh was cycling through Amsterdam and Mohammed B. shot him several times, slit his throat and than stabbed two knifes in him. One was sticking a letter to Ayaan Hirsi Ali to his body.

Were the contents of the letter to Ayann Hirsi Ali ever made public?

[DTA]

>>>>>Yes, Srebrenica shows that Serbs were just trying to defend there country. After all, the best way is killing all men (7000 I believe)<<<<<

Teezle, welcome to the FR. As a newbie, you will be scrutinized. Please do not take it personally, too much of trolling recently.

Interesting you have mentioned Srebrenica. Unfortunaltelly, the statement above creates a problem for your credibility as trusted reported from the Dutch front.

April 7 2002 NIOD Srebrenica report published.

NIOD documents massive U.S. support to radical islamists (i.e. Al Qaeda) in Bosnia during 1992-95 civil war. Srebrenica episode is especially revealing.

April 16 2002

Dutch government resigns over Srebrenica report

No wonder having in mind the hoax NIOD report revealed

May 6 2002 Pim Fortuyn assassinated by the "lone gunman"

If not murdered, Fortuyn would become the next Dutch PM. He oposed NATO support to radical islamists and wanted to sack ICTY disgrace from the Dutch soil.

November 2 2004 Theo Van Gogh, Pim Fortuyn friend assasinated. He was on his way to studo to work on the next film, 06-05.Film was about the assasination of Pim Fortuyn.

But this is not an end to Dutch connection to Srebrenica. MABEL WISSE SMIT was a gun runner for radical islamists and was active in Srebrenica hoax.

There are many decent Dutch people, and there are some very rotten ones. Rotten ones are like snake poison merchants, and because of them many good Dutch people will die.

katya8 asked someone to smoke you out. Methinks it is not necessary, you have done this all by yourself :-)

SREBRENICA, just like KOSOVO is the litmus test.

[Chena]

It is difficult for some to understand that they are playing right into the hands of the terrorists.

The terrorists (Muslim extremists) WANT a religious war. The way for them to achieve their goal is to incite rage against ALL Muslims, and their acts of terror are apparently working from what I've read here on FR.

Our President, George W. Bush, understands this and knows that this is a "War on Terror", not a war against Muslims in general. Some here on these FR threads would have us believe that because there are evil Muslims waging war against anyone who does not believe in their radicalized version of Islam, then it's only a matter of time before ALL Muslims will attack us. To these folks, they see fear in every Muslim, and they believe that the Muslim family down the street is a Trojan Horse just waiting to attack.

When I've argued this with some, the first thing they will accuse you of is not having any knowledge of the Quran, etc., and once the insults start flying they become a pack of rabid dogs. As you can imagine, that does not lead to a thoughtful discussion. Yes, we need more Moderate Muslims to speak out, to speak out loudly and often. These Moderate Muslims are also victims of Muslim extremists/terrorists.

The War on Terror needs to be fought throughout the world, there is no doubt at all about that. I urge people to remember who the real terrorists are, and what the terrorists are trying to accomplish. If through their evil acts they turn you against ALL Muslims, then they will have won. And the moderate Muslims will become victims of both sides of the issue. The War on Terror will morph into a Religious War...and THAT will be the end of this world as we know it.

President Bush understands this, and I'm just betting he'd now say, "and I approved this message". LOL

[Chena]

LOL! I had to get up at 3:00 and stoke the fire here in Alaska, which woke the dogs up, which meant standing around waiting for them to do their business, which led to watching the northern lights. So what else is a gal to do now that she can't get back to sleep?

[skeeter]

If you ever go to Paris, do not: 1) take the train into the Gare Nord from DeGaulle Airport

Seemed perfectly safe to me when I was there last spring. However, that may have had something to do with the fact there were as many FA MAS-toting troopers patrolling the terminal than there were travelers.

[shield]

bmp

[Sender]

Teezle, nice to meet you and thanks for the firsthand report on what is really going on. I've never been there yet but probably will in the future since I work for a Dutch company. I hope you find a solution to "the problem". If it works, we can all learn from it. Best of luck to you.

[DTA]

>>>>>>It is an illustration of exactly why our two cultures cannot co-exist in the same space. We were tolerant of them and look where it got us. They demand that we accomodate them and adjust to their culture. It is long past time they adjusted to ours, particularly if they want to live in OUR countries.<<<<<

Your opinion can be confirmed by looking into knowledgeable source, The Islamic Declaration, book written by Alija Izetbegovic, radical muslim who became president of Bosnia:

"there can be neither peace nor coexistence between the Islamic faith and non-Islamic social and political institutions";

- "the Islamic movement must and can, take over political power as soon as it is morally and numerically so strong that it can not only destroy the existing non-Islamic power, but also to build up a new Islamic one" .

Izetbegovic deliberatelly caused civil war in Bosnia to gain power. Izetbegovic helped Dr. Elfatih Hassanein-omal-Fatih to launder money for AL QAEDA and made Bosnia AL Qaeda stronghold.

Dutch governemnt still supports the lies Izetbegovic regime fabricated.

Telling the truth about Srebrenica is the way for the Dutch to break the spell.

Otherwise, this will become the art of a lost civilisation:

[trashcanbred]

One thing I never understood... what was the motive for Pim Fortuyn's murder. I read it was done by an animal rights activist but that doesn't exactly explain the reason why to me.

I read on one web site he stated he "murdered for the muslims" though it was unclear that Volkert Van der Graaf was a muslim himself.

I hope that things calm down for everyone there and that cooler heads prevail.

[all4one]

teezle....thanks for your informative posts and stay safe. In a religion/moon cult such as the Muslims believe; they promote to all of their believers that it is perfectly acceptable to "kill all infadels" it is written in their holy book the Koran.

One of these days, the governments of the world will stop trying to pretend that there are "moderate Muslims" and that their religion is a peaceful one. If a Muslim is living his life according to the Koran; he cannot ever in his heart be moderate.