Posted on 11/10/2004 2:52:53 AM PST by teezle
I have read several comments by FReepers about the slaugthering of Theo van Gogh and see a lot of half truths about it. Therefore I will write this short report from Utrecht (The Netherlands).
Theo van Gogh was a very famous film maker and columnist in The Netherlands. His movies were about several topics including a remake of Romeo and Julia with a Dutch girl and a Morrocan immigrant. He was a very generous guy as all his friends mentioned at the funeral and a good citizen (working for his son's sportclub). His other side was his fun in provoking people. He has provoked almost every well-known person in the Netherlands. For instance, there has been a lawsuit against him for commenting: "It smells like caramel, they must be burning the Jews with diabetes". He just loved to create conflicts.
He has been sacked as a columnist numerous times and the last few years he used the free newspaper in public traffic and his website www.degezonderoker.nl (thehealthysmoker) for his insults. Last years a lot of his insults were pointed against Muslims which he always mentioned as goatf*uckers. And yes, that is possible in the NL. I read an article about a NYT reporter who was thinking how he was going to translate that. I read in the NYT that he finally used "bestiality with a goat". :-)
Another person in the NL who is trying to start a discussion about Muslims and the Koran is Ayaan Hirsi Ali (House of Representatives for the liberal party). She is originally from Somalia and when she was told to marry a guy she fled to the NL. She asked Theo van Gogh to do a short film about Mulims women surpression and he did. Ayaan has been threatened so many times (she is someone who is not Muslim anymore, don't know the word for that) that she got police protection 24/7. Theo did not want protection.
Last week Theo van Gogh was cycling through Amsterdam and Mohammed B. shot him several times, slit his throat and than stabbed two knifes in him. One was sticking a letter to Ayaan Hirsi Ali to his body.
That night 20.000 people were making a lot of noise on the Dam (square) in Amsterdam to make a statement that this will not be tolerated. Also several Muslim demonstrations have been held after Tuesday. And a few rightwing extremist (neo nazis) were having demonstrations but these were aborted by the police.
A few more people were arrested in the aftermath and police are searching Mohammed B.'s religious teacher. They both had contact with Samir A., the guy who was arrested for planning attacks against the House of Rep.
Mohammed B. was raised in the NL and was a normal (read: moderate Muslim) until two years ago. He started visiting more radical mosques, got a beard and started wearing djelaba's. People around him say that he started becoming radical after his mother died of cancer. But when he got radical they lost contact.
Since Theo van Gogh was not a normal guy his friends organised a party the day before his funeral. They even had a corner with goats behind a fence with a sign above it: "For people that have the urge". :-)
Since last Tuesday a few attacks have been commited against Islamic schools and mosques. This ranged from small fires to thrown-in windows. Apart from two other attacks: A bomb attack at a Islamic school in Eindhoven and yesterday a fire that burned down a Islamic school in Uden. Also several churces have been under attack in recent days and yesterday night (I cannot believe it) the church in the village I grew up at (Boxmeer) was set on fire (small one though).
This morning I woke up and learned that the terrorism police squad tried to enter a house in The Hague and got a grenade thrown at them. Three police men were hurt. The police is trying to prevent the thing that happened in Madrid (exploding house when they entered) and are still waiting to enter the house. It is now even prohibited to fly over The Hague.
I can tell you guys this. Living in the Netherlands at this moment in time is very unreal. The song I keep having in my head this morning is "We gotta get out of this place.." I am starting to think more and more that we are on the edge of a major conflict within the NL (as some of you guys have been telling al along), but I am not ready to give up on the Muslim community in the Netherlands.
If it happens I probably have move to another country (perhaps to America like Theo van Gogh was going to do when his son finally got 18, is now 12 I believe). We'll see...
Btw. People were questioning my Dutch decent because of my English but I lived in England for half a year so that's why.
If anyone has any questions about the Netherlands or the situation as of now, please feel free to ask.
Best, Teezle
For the insomniacs, the 3 to 6 AM window can be a lonely vigil. Why, it might be as much as 30 minutes between new threads.
I know, damn, it's enough to put you back to sleep sometimes. ;^)
Sigh, 30 minutes between new threads - so difficult. :-)
Teezle,
First, I want to thank you for your post. I have been interested in the recent events in Holland, as my younger sister is planning to emigrate to Holland to be with her Dutch boyfriend.
I would, however, take slight exception to you criticism of the US role in the Middle East. You didn't elaborate, so I'll go easy.
The founding of the State of Israel was necessitated by the Holocaust in Europe -- the US bears no responsibility for that. Israel's prime supporter & weapons supplier up until 1967 was .... France. The Suez Crisis of 1956 involved the cooperation of Britain, France & Israel against Egypt and it was stopped by Pres. Eisenhower. Finally, the involvement of the US in Middle Eastern affairs is both demanded and derided in the Arab World. It gets demanded by this or that Arab government when they need US to save the regime; it is uniformly derided in the state-controlled Arab media.
I apologize if this seems like a lecture, but many of my fellow Americans don't know their own history and they just assume that the US has always been Israel's chief benefactor.
I knew sooner or later we'd be blamed for what is happening there. Let me ask you a few questions:
1) What did we do, except fight FOR Muslims before 911 Where they murdered 3,000 people and destroyed 2 of the largest building in the world?
2) Why are they after Europeans when you guys are CLEARLY on their side in Iraq and Palestine?
3) Did the US respond to 3,000 murders by burning down Mosques and Islamic schools in the US?
4) Are the Dutch intolerant for reacting to 1 murder by burning down Mosques and schools? Did the US cause your people to react that way? Where is the logic in the statement except an attempt to deny reality and blame others for your incorrect assessment of the situation?
5) Did the Brits stir up the Nazis which lead to the invasion and occupation of the Netherlands? If not, why would you say the US is responsible for Muslims killing van Gogh?
You folks better wake up before it is too late. You better stop excusing the actions of barbarians intent on the destruction of all other religions and cultures. You better stop blaming us and facing the truth or you risk ruin.
I have the impression, correct me if I am wrong, that the young Muslim men in Europe are not especially religious. They are angry, hostile to the greater culture, disaffected, and largely unemployed. Their object seems to be destruction of Western culture.
I think the European welfare culture feeds this growing cancer on the body politic.
I read a very instructive article about the cites (French government housing) that exist outside every French city. They are a breeding ground for hostility and terrorism. They are fed and supported by the French taxpayer.
By the time the Europeans awake to the danger they have imported and nurtured, it may well be too late.
But the Dutch enjoy kindapping, jailing and subjecting to the show trial abuse of those Serbs who dared to defend their country from the Muslim conquest. Release the hostages kept by you in Hague first! Or let God punish you by having your own Kosovo to be ruined and taken away from you.
Holland = Hypocrisy.
Not to all cultures - they keep Serbs who resisted Muslim conquest in Hague dungeon and they harass Poland for not allowing Dutch style slaughter on the innocents. (See The failed Dutch invasion of Poland )
Thank you very much for your post and and information. Welcome aboard.
Canada should take note of this.
Bump
The first rule of war is not to avoid battle but to wage it on your terms. If your terms are so disadvantagous to the enemy that he retreats or surrenders, then you have won without shedding blood but you have still fought, if only in maneuver and not in the actual clashing of blades. Regardless, fight you must. By putting it off till it is the enemy who chooses the point and time of battle, you inadvertently surrender all advantage and momentum to your opponent.
The best thing to do is allow the escalation to go on while you are still the majority and thus have a fighting chance.
One must be inherently suspect of muslims, who in their counter-demonstrations harken quickly to comments like "we want to stay here." Sure they want to stay there!
The islamic "buitenlanders" are clearly invested in their move to "their" cushy, foreign lowland. There aren't many more attractive alternative lands to give them as generous government hand-outs as what the Dutch brand of socialism "en aardgas" offers. Not wanting to leave doesn't "cut it," compared to true abhorrence of the radicals' acts of violence and directly working to stop it, which one has a reason to expect if these "moderate islamics" would side with Dutch culture.
I think the Dutch need to implement a policy that all families in a mosque will be deported if a member of theirs commits an act of terrorism or is caught with terrorist weapons.
Two-to-three hundred at a time, "Go!"
HF
Most Russians, Serbs, Greeks, Makedonians have long ago foreswore any option but option 3. Israel is heading that way too and so is India. I believe soon it's going to get really tight for Islam.
Haha. Unfortunately I think not many born Dutch are likely to pick up some bombs, strap them around their body and walk into a mosque.
Your plan is probably Plan W or so. Thanks for the tip though.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.