Posted on 11/07/2004 12:02:58 PM PST by lsilver5
Simon Schama divides us into two nations. One America is a perimeter, lying on the oceans or the fuzzy boundary with the Canadian lakes, and is porous and outward-looking. The other America is continental and landlocked, its roots of obstinate self-belief buried deep beneath the bluegrass and high corn. It is time we called these two Americas something other than Republican and Democrat. How about "Godly America" and "Worldly America?" Godly America is "mythic, messianic, conversionary, given to acts of public witness. Worldly America is a lot more like Europe. It is time to stop pretending that Europeans and Americans share a common view of the world. While 11 U.S. states voted to reject any notion of gay marriage, almost every state in Europe is moving to embrace the idea. While U.S. conservatives dream of the day when the Supreme Court overturns Roe vs. Wade, publicly funded abortions are taken for granted in most of Europe. In America, capital punishment has flourished. In Europe, the abolition of the death penalty is a prerequisite for membership in the European Union. When the Founding Fathers drafted the Constitution, they took pains to erect a high wall between church and state. The new American majority wants to lower the wall. Meanwhile, the EU fought to keepfree of any references to God or religion. What Europeans seem to dislike about Bush is not that he is faithful to his wife but the "moral certainty" of his pronouncements. For Europeans as well as Americans, this election was a milestone. "Europeans have to open their eyes to the fact that the U.S. today is rather a different place than what it used to be," Now deal with it. America has spoken, the rest of the world should listen.
(Excerpt) Read more at chicagotribune.com ...
Ya we are really stupid as a country. We only delivered most of all of the technological advancement the world has known, most of the scientific and medical advancments, saved the world from Facism and Communism....
We are so damn stupid its killing us...
What fools
Not to be picking holes in your coat, but the exact wording is "Congress"; shall make no law...etc." not "government".
There is a BIG difference.
The Congress of the United States is a single, established, limited body of representative governance of and for the United States.
OTOH, The "government" of the United States is a wide open term that can mean anything from the very highest office in the federal government, to the elected part-time dog catcher/mayor of Teenytinytown, N. Dakota (pop. 751).
Why I bother to bring this up -- other than risk making a complete nuisance of myself -- is b/c it is this phrase ("Congress shall make no law...") that is the bone of contention in the tug of war over Christmas scenes, Ten Commandments displays, etc.
To wit:
--One side states that this line in the Constitution is, in deed if not in fact, the "separation of Church and State".
--Whereas the other side points out that the line read that "Congress, shall make no law..." Congress. Not the state and/or local governments. Congress and only Congress shall make no law(s) establishing, etc.
Therefore, some argue, if the government of your town decides it will permit an organization to put up a manger display in the city park, it has every right to do so. B/c the Constitution specified, they say, that "Congress", not simply "the Government" shall make no laws respecting the establishment of religion.
and we care what they think because????????????????????
Many Europeans and like minded Americans would really rather be ruled by a dictator or monarch. It makes life so much simpler for people whose servile nature makes them disinclined toward traditional worship but more inclined to bow down to the likes of Princess Di, Madonna, JKF, JFK jr., Michael Jackson, etc.... .
To a certain extent I understand what you're trying to say, and I think it certainly valid that you corrected my 'government' to 'congress'. The government of the United States does refer to the federal process. I think it's a bit of a stretch to consider local and state offices as the government of the United States.
Now that may be academic, since everyone tries to extrapolate local rules based on that federal document.
The congress is the lawmaking body of the federal government. If people want to extrapolate meaning, they should only extrapolate that the government is not to establish. It is not to govern how and where religion is practiced.
If people in a local school board want to have the kids pray every fifteen minutes, it's not the fed's right to strike that down. If the feds think that it is, then they should rethink the provision of education in this nation, back out of it and let the local communities provide that education as it was always intended.
If someone doesn't like their children attending schools where prayers are offered, let them be the ones to start up schools on their own. Why should the religious be the ones who are outcasts?
And that in itself is against the First Amendment.
a) By banning what it considers "religious displays" (a term that gets more and more vague with every passing year) Congress is "...prohibiting the free exercise (of religion/religious holiday) thereof;..."
b) It can -- and has been -- argued that by banning what it considers "religious displays" Congress is, in fact, "..making laws respecting the establishment of (a) religion..." The religion* being, of course, atheism.
* The definition of the word "religion", while chiefly, is not always Theological in nature or meaning. The word can also mean "a cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion." To many Marxism is a religion.
In my experience, it makes you way more grounded in reality! Turn a social "science" professor loose in the wilderness and do likewise with a farmer. Watch which one survives.
There is no arguement that continental Europeans have been our enemies in the past. The stated ambitions of the EU is to counterbalance American economic and political strength. This is diplo-speak for being an advisary. Sun Tzu advised that if your advisaries think you are stupid or crazy you should do nothing to change their opinions.
Americans only appear dumb to those who blindly believe the propaganda that is fed to them by CNN International.
The congress is the lawmaking body of the federal government. If people want to extrapolate meaning, they should only extrapolate that the government is not to establish. It is not to govern how and where religion is practiced.
If people in a local school board want to have the kids pray every fifteen minutes, it's not the fed's right to strike that down. If the feds think that it is, then they should rethink the provision of education in this nation, back out of it and let the local communities provide that education as it was always intended....."
My friend, IMHO, you have called it like it is. But, alas, I also suspect you (and I and a LOT of other folks) are whistling into the wind.
Why? Because the hand that takes is always beneath the hand that gives. To state and local governments Federal money is the very breath of life. He who pays the piper, calls the dance. IOW, all it takes is for the Fed. to say something like:
"Gee, you know, we don't think your idea about making kids pray every fifteen minutes is right. It's not fair. And, heck, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for us to give you that money you've been asking for,to build that new school. When you're just going to have kids do something we don't think is right.But on the other hand if you were to... "
And farewell pray in school.
I hear you and I agree.
The federal government takes too much money away from the local communities. The local communities should keep their money and run their own programs.
This is where conservatism has been let down the most by our federal leaders. This is what we should take them to the woodshed over.
Our leaders should understand that where the federal government takes over, the quality of a project will break down, and the most funds will be wasted. It also lends itself to the introduction of the socialist ideal. Big mistake.
Thanks for the comments.
Actually the average European is as bigoted, narrow-minded and parochial as they claim Middle America is - the only differenced is that the Euros are so emasculated and defenseless that they can't do anything about it so they whine because Americans haven't given up their will and ability to fight back against those who want to kill them, those who want to steal their hard-earned income and those who want to force 'tolerance' of intolerable acts and beliefs!
That's exactly what the left wants. A charismatic dictator. That's why they like to lionize figures like Kennedy, now its the clintons. A dictator would get rid of that messy business of elections, and the disorder and clutter of democracy.
"Simon Schama divides us into two nations"
Who the hell is Simon Schama and why should I care what he thinks?
Article states: "While U.S. conservatives dream of the day when the Supreme Court overturns Roe vs. Wade, publicly funded abortions are taken for granted in most of Europe. In America, capital punishment has flourished. In Europe, the abolition of the death penalty is a prerequisite for membership in the European Union."
Europe - land of the slaughtered unborn and shelter for murderers. What a paradise!
Europeans have to open their eyes to the fact that the U.S. today is rather a different place than what it used to be,"
"I disagree. America is simply maintaining the traditional values of Western civilization. It is Europe that has changed and thrown them overboard."
Well put. This is part of the scam, that THEY are some sort of benchmark. We have changed a helluva lot less than they have.
Then again, it may be that in the crucible of the Cold War, the feckless Euroturds pretended to be something they never were...and only lately have shown their true face...
"It can also be argued that the blue states are "waterlocked" and are therefore "internationalist,"
The way I see it, the blue states are the outer provinces, huddled around the coastal inlets, far from the heartland and ignorant of its vital energies.
Largely made up of traders, middlemen and moneychangers, they never have truly embraced the values of the great nation to whose margins they cling, and which supports their existence.
Mix in a few centers of tourist interest, exotic bazaars and entertainments, and there you have it--the essence of the Blue Fringe.
Very well said, hb. Maybe you and I should collaborate on a book about this.
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