Most families don't comprehend layoffs until it happens to them

The Pittsburgh Tribune-Review ^ | Tuesday, November 2, 2004 | Anne Michaud

[Willie Green]

I ran into a relative at a wedding this weekend. We hadn't seen each other since the last family wedding, three years ago. I asked how her daughter was doing, and this story came pouring out.

Her daughter's husband was laid off in July from a company where he had worked for 28 years. He will miss out on his pension and faces job-hunting now at age 52. His wife is working 50 hours a week and fears making any missteps at her job because she is now carrying the family's health insurance. He's depressed and is a scatterbrained substitute mom to their two busy teenagers.

This is a sad story, to be sure, but a common one. Three years ago, when I last saw this relative, my husband was out of work. At that time, she asked, "Can't he just take another job? Oh, well, I guess he can't accept just anything."

I didn't go into sad detail with her back then. I don't like to retail my misery -- unless, of course, I can do so in the pages of a newspaper and get paid for it.

[Hendrix]

Overpaid is overpaid. The market always decides the pay rate, as long as it is not manipulated by government rules (union laws). If the market is manipulated by union laws, that manipulation will only last so long until a competitor knocks that business out of business. It is as simple as that. Union businesses (except for government unions which cannot be knocked out by a competitor) are being weeded out by the market. That is what is happening in OH and Penn. (steel mills, etc.). The old union jobs are a thing of the past, and people need to realize that.

[durasell]

Many of those jobs that went to Mexico in the 1990s have left for China/India. Mexico has also lost in this latest wave of "outsourcing."

[NavVet]

I'll show respect where I think it is deserved.

Frankly, I don't think throwing out some anectodal story about someone losing a pension after 28 years with a company, without addressing some of the obvious holes in the story, is an intellectually honest post.

Willie may not be a troll, but if not let him defend his post, instead of dropping off some flame-bait that sounds like a DNC talking point.

[Coldwater Creek]

He could do what my Son did and sit down and figure out what he could do to make a living. With some donated office equipment and a 1000.00$ loan from us he and another man started their own business. That has been 13 years ago and the business is still going great guns. BTW he 5 children to keep in private school and his wife is a stay at home mom. Actually that is an oxymoron as she is in the road with the kids all of the time.

[Hendrix]

"But if the company is surviving and making an adequate amount of money to stay in the black, then there is no imperative for letting good workers go."

No so my friend. If that company does not reduce its unnecessary costs, its competitors will and those competitors will start offering the same goods and services at a lower rate (the new market price), and the company will be forced to reduce its costs as well or go out of business. This is basic economic folks.

[durasell]

You have two contradictory statements in that:

A) "Overpaid is overpaid" which would imply a constant

B) "The market always decides the pay rate," which implies that compensation for any job changes according to market conditions.

I believe the second statement. And yes, unions (at least as they existed in the 1960s/1970s) would not seem viable anymore. However, even with the elimination of unions and the associated costs, that still doesn't mean that wages for U.S. workers can drop to the point where they are compeitive with workers in a country where yearly annual income is below $5,000.

[Coldwater Creek]

Ruth, keep your chin up. I will be praying for a job for your husband. What kind of work does he do. Before retirement we were out of jobs a number of times.

[NavVet]

Well exactly what is the point of the post? "Layoffs happen to everybody." I'm not saying he shouldn't be able to make the post, but unless he is arguing the layoff and alleged loss of pension is due to some government policy, or lack thereof what is the purpose of the post. What point is being made. If it is not a political commentary, and just intended as a human interest story, I would question the choice of the FR as a forum.

[EEDUDE]

"An honest conservative would admit that it is the excessive burden of government regulation that places our domestic industries at a competitive disadvantage in the global marketplace. Government created this economic disparity. Government policies CAN be shifted to rectify and compensate for it."

I absolutely agree with you on this point, but I am not holding my breath.

Most arguments for the benefits of free trade rely on old models that assumed a free flow of labor and capital in BOTH directions, with a level playing field.

The field definitely ain't level.

[expat_panama]

Willie may not be a troll, but if not let him defend his post, instead of dropping off some flame-bait...

Willie has volunteered to be everyone's "guy we love to hate".  Personally, I like to view posts like this every time my blood pressure starts getting to low.

[Hendrix]

When I said overpaid is overpaid, that is exactly what I mean: The market determines what is overpaid and you cannot change that definition (the market defines it).

The jobs that we can no longer do and make a living will go to other countries, and we will have to do jobs that those countries cannot do. In other words, if France can make wine cheaper and better than us and we can make cars better and cheaper than France, we will have to make cars and let France make wine. We have a comparative advantage with cars. Of course, that is just a simple example, but that is again, basic economics. We will also lose some of our jobs (buggy whips, farmers, etc.) to lack of need, etc.

[Lijahsbubbe]

People somehow always seem to think that good times are the natural way of life, and they are entitled to always do well. But the natural law is that nothing stays the same, good or bad, and you better be ready to deal.

Well put and very true.

[GovernmentShrinker]

Willie isn't a troll..He just posts every layoff in the US.

Willie is to layoffs what ambrose is to pit bulls.

[Protagoras]

If Kerry is elected, I'll be among those posting "Impeach Kerry" articles.

Impeach your own candidate?

[durasell]

Okay, we're in agreement then...though I would argue the wine point if I knew more about wine.

I believe the thing that really irks people about the situation is that many lack the skills or resources to gain the skills needed today in order to maintain a certain standard of living.

[wbill]

I have a question - does the worker that you're talking about perform his job more efficiently due to his experience? Or, is it a wrote task that could be performed by anyone?

I generally agree with you BTW.

Also, I'm in a position that's about to be outsourced. I work in computers - to me, it's utterly foolish to get rid of a core knowledge base for a business by outsourcing. I have 5+ years of experience, and I'm low on the totem pole - there are people that are going to be gotten rid of that have been yer 20-25 years. I'm trying to look at it from a managerial perspective, and I still can't see how it can positively impact a business.

[expat_panama]

The field definitely ain't level.

This is an "elect Kerry" article. 

You're never going to get a more level playing field with Osoma bin Kerry.

[biblewonk]

And it's good for them. Layoffs are good for your soul.

[Willie Green]

Impeach your own candidate?

That's a silly accusation, but certainly not unexpected from you.