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10/31 WND Exclusive:Former Colonel 'Kerry's non-honorable discharge?'
WorldNetDaily ^ | 10/31/04 | Earl Lively

Posted on 10/30/2004 10:50:51 PM PDT by icecold

Kerry's non-honorable discharge Exclusive: Earl Lively makes solid case senator left Navy under a cloud There is overwhelming evidence that the Navy gave John Kerry either a dishonorable discharge or an undesirable discharge – which is the equivalent of a dishonorable discharge without the felony conviction – and that, as a result of such discharge, he was stripped of all of his famous but questionable Navy awards and medals. And the kicker? The evidence is on his website!

(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: kerry; kerrydischarge; napalminthemorning; toolate; wot
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To: commish

unfortunatly other than a suprise that is all they will get him for, They can't get him for violating and laws cause I bet if it did happen than he like his godfather friend was pardoned by carter. But it could sway the election for sure but the lefties back clinton and he was a dodger so who knows,


21 posted on 10/30/2004 11:04:17 PM PDT by Vortexsg (The only thing neccessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.)
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To: icecold

I hope to God you are right. But, I don't want to get caught accusing Kerry of something that could backfire and hurt us. We cannot be like CBS, after all.

Therefore, we have to consider all of the other possible explanations and make sure none of them are possible. In that spirit.

The discrepancy could be explained, I believe, if Kerry was in the IRR (Independent Ready Reserve). You are only allowed in the IRR after you have fully completed your contract. However, you don't receive a discharge until after you resign from the IRR.

I know because I did something like this myself. After returning from the Gulf War I received a DD-214 and went back to reserve status. However, I had 9.5 years in and for personal reasons I went IRR. I stayed IRR for another 6 years (no drilling) and was then discharged.

The evidence presented clearly indicates that it is LIKELY that Kerry got an "Other Than Honorable" discharge. However, we need concrete proof. This is not it, unfortunately.


22 posted on 10/30/2004 11:04:19 PM PDT by 2ndreconmarine
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To: 2ndreconmarine
true..i wonder if someone like john warner would come forward One of the top dogs in that club, Sen. John Warner, has amnesia about "any representation" about Kerry receiving a less than honorable discharge, even though he was Nixon's Secretary of the Navy when Kerry delivered his diatribe against the Navy and other services in the Senate in April, 1971
23 posted on 10/30/2004 11:06:22 PM PDT by icecold
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To: Trepz

Has ice formed over the equator yet? I've lost all faith in our media... even FOX ... who could have done a special on this story.


24 posted on 10/30/2004 11:07:22 PM PDT by Arizona Carolyn
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To: icecold
What Mr. Lipscomb noticed (and I overlooked when I first read the document) was the date of the posted discharge, Feb. 16, 1978. This was six years after Kerry's six-year (1966-1972) commitment to the Navy ended.

That discrepancy was discussed here on FR shortly after Kerry put his "records" on his website.

I just love how the media "discovers" these nuggets then heartily pats themselves on the back.

25 posted on 10/30/2004 11:08:45 PM PDT by randog (What the....?!)
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To: icecold

No, as a commissioned officer, he could leave active duty, never participate in guards or reserves, and still maintain his commission - meaning there would be no discharge. While it is possible that Kerry resigned his commission in '72 and received a less than honorable discharge, it is also possible (and even likely) that for some reason he waited until '78 to resign his commission. If he had not resigned (or lost) his commission in '78, he would still hold his commission today and would never have been discharged, despite his active duty having ended in '72.


26 posted on 10/30/2004 11:10:38 PM PDT by bushisdamanin04
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To: Arizona Carolyn
They won't touch this unless there is more information to back it up

(IMO) Kerry is scared to death of what is in his file and that is why he won't sign the 180

With that said ... the media should have hounded Kerry as to why he won't sign it and release ALL of his file
27 posted on 10/30/2004 11:11:04 PM PDT by Mo1 (This Sept 10th attitude is no way to protect our country)
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To: bushisdamanin04
Your information is close to correct; not totally correct.

A commission is "indefinite", but not "for life" unless the officer has at least 20 good years of service at retires ... then the officer is entitled to state his rank (with the tag ... USN(ret) or USNR(ret) or as appropriate for the other services.

Kerry got an honorable discharge when he went from enlisted status (Officer Candidate OCUI-2), and was immediately commissioned as an Ensign, USNR.

When he, as a reserve officer, left active duty, his status changed. (Probably USNR-S1 - non-drilling).

Usually, an officer can be S1 for about 2 years before being transferred to S2 status. Then, the Navy typically "cleans house" and will discharge reserve officers who have been in an S2 status for 4 -6 years.

The interesting fine print on on of the Navy's letter to Kerry regarding his Honorable Discharge in 1978 was the paragraph directing him to return his ID card. Now ... if he had been given a less than honorable discharge - he certainly would not have had an ID card.

Having said all that, I still recognize that Kerry's people are quite capable at cutting/pasting/editing and re-Xeroxing stuff to create papers that say what ever looks good, and the bad stuff could have been taken out. Also ... the letter I mentioned (return ID card) could have had some errors ... some sort of "form letter" where paragraphs might have been added.

Bottom line ... don't count on anything .... BUT Kerry should be pressured to sign the SF180!!!

Mike

28 posted on 10/30/2004 11:12:52 PM PDT by Vineyard
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To: bushisdamanin04
"An officer, however, remains an officer for life unless he resigns his commission or gets into trouble. An officer who does not resign (or lose) his commission would never be discharged."

If you are right, then this only strengthens the story's viability. If an officer is "never" discharged unless he resigns his commission or gets into trouble, then how is that John Kerry DID get a discharge? Why would Kerry resign his commission when he became a U.S. Senator? Better yet, what sort of trouble earned Kerry his 'early' discharge?

29 posted on 10/30/2004 11:13:07 PM PDT by TheCrusader ("the frenzy of the Mohammedans has devastated the churches of God" Pope Urban II (c 1097 a.d.))
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To: Mo1

the key would be Sen. John Warner coming forward..but that might not happen since he's part of the senate club


30 posted on 10/30/2004 11:13:39 PM PDT by icecold
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To: Mo1
I agree that Kerry is scared of what is in his file, otherwise he would gladly have released everything. But I seriously doubt he received a dishonorable discharge. The Swifties, Drudge, FNC, etc., would have been all over it.

Trust me, officers are "discharged" very differently than enlisted men.

31 posted on 10/30/2004 11:14:31 PM PDT by bushisdamanin04
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To: icecold

Is it just a coincidence that Sen. John Warner amnesia, or may have something to do with the fact that he was mentioned today on the news for a cabinet position in a Kerry administration.


32 posted on 10/30/2004 11:15:06 PM PDT by kara37
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To: bushisdamanin04

I believe the regulations under which he received the discharge in '78 had something to do with not being involuntarily separated without a hearing or some such thing.


33 posted on 10/30/2004 11:15:35 PM PDT by claudiustg (Go Sharon! Go Bush!)
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To: bushisdamanin04

Were you one that suggested that a DD214 wouldn't even have been issued for an officer? I thought I read some 'freepers' suggesting just that.


34 posted on 10/30/2004 11:15:38 PM PDT by sevry
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To: Woogit

Perhaps this is why Bush and Rove are so confident in winning. If Kerry happens to get close enough to challenge the vote in court, they trot out this little gem that under the constitution, Kerry cannot become president...game over. The supreme court cannot decide anything other than what is specifically stated in the US Constitution...Kerry will never be president.


35 posted on 10/30/2004 11:16:06 PM PDT by dannyboy72 (it's time to take on the media)
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To: icecold
let's hope..i would think Drudge would pick up on it

Everyone please send the article to Drudge. This is proof that MSM has been giving Kerry a pass for the last 6 months.

Why hasn't any journalist ever asked Kerry:
1. Have you ever not got a honorable discharge?
2. Why haven't you signed Standard Form-180 to release all your military records?
3. Have you ever falsified an after-action report? (the answer is definitely yes in the Sampan Incident)

MSM is simply not doing its job and this is proof of their bias.
36 posted on 10/30/2004 11:16:16 PM PDT by igoramus987
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To: bushisdamanin04; icecold
No, as a commissioned officer, he could leave active duty, never participate in guards or reserves, and still maintain his commission - meaning there would be no discharge.

I disagree just slightly. You are correct that an Officer can keep his commission after the end of active duty. However, there are limits. An officer has to do something to maintain the commission, at least in the naval services. He has to be either active, active reserve, or IRR (see my post #22). In the IRR, you are still supposed to go to meetings (you get credit for service and retirement points but are not paid). The most leeway they will give you is 5-6 years of doing nothing. Typically it is 5 years but you can get a 1 year extension for a good reason.

We know that Kerry was neither active or active reserve after 1972. We don't know that he wasn't IRR. We do know he didn't participate. So, he could have had a 6 year grace period from 1972 to 1978.

Look, I know it is unlikely, particularly because of all of the other evidence. However, it is simply not conclusive yet. Again, unfortunately.

37 posted on 10/30/2004 11:17:26 PM PDT by 2ndreconmarine
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To: commish

"This will be breaking hard!!!!! On Nov 3 that is!"

Nov 3 2005 that is


38 posted on 10/30/2004 11:18:23 PM PDT by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Nov 2 : Remember the 58,000 + Names on the Wall)
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To: dannyboy72

I am praying it won't be that close but that certainly would make a great ace in the hole!!!


39 posted on 10/30/2004 11:19:22 PM PDT by Woogit (IN GOD I TRUST...NO MATTER WHAT!)
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To: 2ndreconmarine

---We know that Kerry was neither active or active reserve after 1972. We don't know that he wasn't IRR. We do know he didn't participate. So, he could have had a 6 year grace period from 1972 to 1978.---

I don't think there's a pot of gold here, just some technical BS. Sorry.


40 posted on 10/30/2004 11:19:30 PM PDT by claudiustg (Go Sharon! Go Bush!)
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